I don't agree that presuming elves and dwarves (or the "good" version of 
the DCs) automatically puts them in the exact same frame as humans.  It 
certainly could be that way, but I think it just as legitimate to say that 
they follow the OLMN, may be twice born, but have a significantly different 
history and context under which they were fallen.  Additionally, why would 
they have to be fallen?  I'm not advocating this, but it isn't that they 
must be fallen.  In the end it's the same God who saves all, but the 
process by which they get there doesn't have to be exactly parallel to 
humans (though for DRaid I think this would break or unduly complicate the 
game system and wouldn't be a desireable approach).

Eric

On Thursday, March 26, 1998 7:16 AM, James Halfast 
[SMTP:jhalfast@...] wrote:
> >I'm with Joe on this one (though not for the same reasons...elves and
> >dwarves were not born with AD&D and the multiple races aspect is hardly
> >unique to AD&D).  While I have no particular problem adding in the 
classice
> >fantasy races of the elves and dwarves as player character races, it
> >presents a serious challenge on how to integrate them into the system.
> > While it would be simple to just allow them to be all that humans can
> >be...no more and no less...that would defeat one of the major reasons 
for
> >multiple races which is diversity and the unique qualities of the race.
> > Personally, I think it would be a major project in deciding how to 
portray
> >them and what characters could and could not do as a member of that 
race.
> > A major project.  But I definitely think that as NPCs they could offer
> >much richness to the game (as has already been sugested).
> >
> >Eric
>
> The problem in deciding whether to let elves, etc. as players is to 
decide
> on their spiritual make-up: Do they have souls? If so, then they are
> parallel to Once Born/Twice Born and must have a place in the Liberated
> Lands. They must be the target of the Light Raider's conversion efforts; 
I
> cannot see limiting them in any way but to flatly say "'cause that's the
> way it's gonna be."
>
> If they do not have the capability to become Twiceborn, then they must be
> on the lines of talking animals, and should not be characters.
>
> If they can be characters, there should be no limit in their creation.
> Sure, modify for racial abilities, but this should only show tendency to
> any special roles, not limitations from others. I think limiting them 
would
> be wrong - and too much like other games.
>
> Jamey
>
>
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