David, I'm afraid that you seem to be justifying that seems to be questionable at best. You say that you are waiting to hear "good reasons" why it is satanic. Remember what Jesus said, "Either you're for me or against me." There is no inbetween. This game's premise is created by someone who does not believe in Jesus Christ as God's Son, King of Kings, and so on. Even though I have not played the game, I have done some homework on it. And I remind you that one person does not need to go through the mud puddle to know that you will get dirty. I get the feeling that you really don't want to have a "good discussion" about the problems of this game. You seem like you want to hear someone tell you that it's okay. No body on this list can do either of those things. You want some advice on the subject; that's good. You've been getting it. But it comes down to the fact that you need to pray, seek God in His Word, and then obey what the Holy Spirit tells you to do. your friend (who doesn't want you to get mixed up in bad stuff), Dan Knight On Wed, 18 Apr 2001 17:04:08 -0600 David Cole <artanis@...> writes: Please show me that Diablo is obviously satanic. I'm waiting to hear a good reason other than that it involves the devil. Our own lives involve the devil, too. That doesn't automatically make us satanic. Please, I'd rather like to hear a discussion on some good, reasonable reasons on why this game is satanic, because thus far everyone who I have run into who calls it such has not played it (to the best of my knowledge.) And trust me, I've run into quite a few. David Cole Wem Welnick wrote: I don't think that Christains should conform to the world. That's in the Bible (I'm pretty sure). That doesn't mean that Christains are to become monks or nuns and live in suclusion, but saying that obviously satanic games aren't is a sign of conformation. Xavior ----- Original Message ----- From: Joe Revesz Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 7:42 AM To: dragonraid@... Subject: [DragonRaid] Re: Satanic games? David Cole wrote: I wholly enjoy it. If you are asking whether the game is > satanic, I believe > > > that Robert B. Marks makes a very good argument against such a > supposition. > > > You can find it at > http://www.diabloii.net/garwulfs/garwulfs-no12.shtml. Much > > > of it is what I have been saying for a long time to those who > call the game > > > satanic, but anyways, it's prolly the best argument I've found > on the matter. > > > Go ahead and check it out. > > > > I went to the website and read his remarks. > > > > Now, allow me to begin to pick it apart. > > > > He says: "(Don't worry; I'm not in any danger of becoming a > Satanist; I'm too > > busy being an infidel Jew for that.)" > > > > Now, is he a Christian, or a pagan? The rest of the page does not > convince me > > that he is a believer. So, my question is, "Do you want this man > to be a > > source to support your arguements when it comes to spiritual > matters?" > > > > Note this: "As it turns out, real Satanism (meaning devil-worship > based on > > Christian mythology) is probably itself just a myth." > > > > Christian mythology, not Bible fact. Okay, I think that we > understand where he > > is coming from. > > > > "It isn't the fact that the imagery is there, but rather how it is > used. The > > hero isn't wandering around congratulating the demons on a job > well done, but > > is slaughtering them left, right, and center instead." > > > > Agreed. Pictures (unless you are dealing with pornography) can't > hurt you, it > > is how you use them. > > > > "Just think: you play a mortal hero (albeit with superpowers that > can put some > > comic-book characters to shame) who actually can go down into the > depths of the > > underworld and kill the Devil. It's not just saving the world, > it's saving the > > world from the source of evil itself. It's freeing damned souls, > crushing > > demons, and taking back all the loot they took from good, hard > working people > > (most of whom do not work as Hollywood studio heads)." > > > > Totally unbiblical in its premise. We are to resist the devil, > not engage him > > in hand-to-hand combat. Do any of you actually wish for this? I > don't. Now, > > we are to assault the gates of Hell, but that does not mean that > we can > > possibly take on Satan himself, but we can shake up his kingdom. > While the > > idea of totally destroying evil forever is appealing, that is > Christ's job. > > > > Now, I have no problem with you playing this or related games. > That is between > > you and the conviction of the Holy Spirit. You know, "All things > are lawful > > for me, though all are not beneficial." If you were my kids, then > we would > > have a much longer discussion about whether the game was > spiritually edifying > > or not, etc. > > > > But, let me say that you should find a better apologetic to > support your desire > > to play this particular game, this man's credentials and worldview > are not > > Christian. It would be like saying that you drink beer because > the commercials > > are well done and funny. > > To be fair, I like to play Ogre, Traveller RPG, Star Trek RPG, and other assorted secular games, not that I get to do so very often. But I present no Christian defence for it other than I enjoy them for recreation. Indeed, Steve Jackson Games (http://sjgames.com) presents some of the most pagan and irreverent game material there is. There is no sugar coating that will cover that. The upshot of it all is that anything that steers you away from God is satanic, it does not necessarily have to have images of the devil attached. If DragonRaid were to be a spiritual distraction for someone, then it is being used for Satan's purposes. Obviously, properly used, DR should point players towards Christ, hence it is not satanic. Joe ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.