[dragonraid] RE: [DragonRaid] Re: The LightRaider Test

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From: "stephen b. brown" <sbrown@...>
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 01:07:18 -0500
       Thank you Joe for the comments.  Here's further comments on the 
previous comments:

>===== Original Message From Joe Revesz <joe.revesz@...> 
>Stephen b. brown writes:
>>        I've been re-working the LR test a little to make it smoother, less
>> tacky, and more realistic.  I want to show you some to the notes I've 
>> down, and if you could comment (Joe, in particular) it would be great.
>You asked for it ;-)
>I have worked on a revision of LRT as well.  I will send you the text later
>when I get home.
>> *SPOILER NOTE:  If you haven't played the LR test yet, you might not 
want to
>> read on*
>The warning still applies.
>> 1A     There's something that doesn't make sense here:  There's a dark 
>> that needs to be filled with the light of the OverLord, and there's some
>> trolls that live in it.  Evil, right?  Well, why is it blocked by boulders
>> with a wordrune?  If it is blocked, how did the trolls get in?  Did they
>> explain what it meant to pick up ones cross and follow Jesus?  I'm 
>> about moving this 'test' to later in the adventure.
>There is obviously another door or cave entrance.  This boulder blocked
>entrance is probably a little-used back door.  In my revision, around the 
>side of the hill is a larger entrance that leads to a colony of Cave Trolls.
>The trolls would not see the WordRune, nor be able to explain it anyway.

       I thought of that, too.  But, there's Still the fact that the cave is 
considered evil (i.e. is dark and needs to be filled with the light of God), 
and that there's a wordrune on the boulders.  It could be that the OverLord 
designed this entrance so that LR's could enter.  So, if we lump all these 
explanations together, we have a cave filled with trolls, with one main 
entrance guarded by them, and a specially prepared back entrance, and a 
blessed grove snug in the middle.  This makes sense, but it seems too 
contrived.  I would rather move the test 'till later, putting it on the door 
to the 
Underground glade.  That way you have a simple thing, a troll cave that 
has a secret door in it that not even the trolls know about.
       Another thing is, if one uses the first explanation, that the boulders 
a forgotten entrance, then wouldn't the gift troll be startled, defensive or 
maybe even aggressive to these humans that just came out of the wall?  I 
can picture the troll sitting back to a nice cup of grog and suddenly, 
several punies appear out of the nowhere!  And his first reaction would 
be....welcome, do you want gifts???
       To some this might seem too nit-picky.  I guess I really like realism 
a story line, and the story seems kind of hoaky when one sacrifices 
realism in order to teach a point.  Ideally, realism and good teaching 
should go hand in hand.  Do I here an 'Amen' out there?!?

>By the way, I selected other WordRunes to appear, one per LightRaider, 
so that
>there is no parroting of answers at this point.

       That's great.  I would like to see some of the ideas you had.
>> 1C     There's a mention of Jesus' actions on Earth.  For those of you 
>> on the 2nd Ed., are these still apropriate?
>Yes, because you can't change the truth.  There just won't be any 
spaceships in
>DR2ED.  Reading the original LRH, I got the impression that the peoples 
>other planets cooperated with the dragons to get rid of the fallen beings.
>This leads to a slippery slope, theologically.
>> 3D     What is the trolls motivation for handing out the gifts?  Does he 
>> hand out prizes to everyone he sees?  Or is there some 'fine print' in 
>> his gifts?  I'm planning on re-writing his introdutory speech to fit this.
>He has probably been tasked to do this by a local dragon.  If he doesn't 
do it,
>he will probably fry.  Good motivation.

       I guess I was thinking that there should be a little more, shall we 
"character development."  It makes sense that he's handing out these 
gifts because a dragon told him to.  Furthermore:
1.  His typical 'patrons' would be those who came into his cave for a 
purpose; most likely treasure hunting, but some could be seeking his 
2.  His purpose, therefore, would be, for one thing, prevent said treasure 
hunters from ransacking his cave
3.  Another purpose would be to attract the visitors to further patronage.  
An example:  although most sweepstakes are 'no purchase necessary,' 
they are designed to get you to buy from that business more.
4.  A third purpose would be that the person is now indebted to the troll 
and the dragon that 'financed' the gifts.
      I can see a better situation in this:  when the LR's enter, the troll is 
cordial with them, seeing them as potential customers.  "Welcome to my 
cave.  I'm Bogbreath.  You seem like the type that would be interested in 
what I have to sell here."  He'll ask them what they came here for.  When 
the LR's tell him that they are not interested in buying anything today, he 
adds, "Just for being here today, I'm prepared to offer you this special 
deal..."  When they refuse his gifts, he gets a little annoyed.  " If you 
come here to get anything, then what are you doing in my cave?"  
Needless to say, the LR's won't be able to give a reasonable explanation 
("We're spelunking!")  and the troll will get suspicious, thinking that they 
came to rob him.  " I bet your here to steal my treasure, aren't you?"  The 
attack ensues.
>>        Furthermore, I noticed that the gifts that he is giving out have a
>> modern ring to them.  A beach on which one surfs and tans?  The 
>> "small shops with clothing in the latest style,"  and "all the top singers
>> will be there,"  also sound a little modern.  How about this:  re-write the
>> beach offer to be an offer to join the local Duke at his summer palace 
on the
>> sea shore;  the clothing shops can go medieval and become a market, 
and the
>> music festival can become a faire.
>The changes are fine.  Though DR is intended to reach teens where they 
are and
>the concert and clothes are a bit more familiar to kids than dinner with 
>> 3I     Why does anyone with a SC of 4 or less automatically fail?  
>> this be rolled?
>To force some practice in rescuing teammates from Sin Enchantment 
and to show
>the players that they need to work to improve their characters.
       Ooookay.  Doesn't that seem a little forced?  This method isn't used in 
other Sin Enchantment situations.  Why here?  Is it because this is the 
first time the LR's encounter a sin enchantment?

>> 3J     Again, what's his motivation for attacking the LR's?  He was just
>> offering a gift.   I want to flesh this out a bit more.
>He attacks because the LRs do not accept his gifts.  So, it is "convert or 
>like some religions.
   I would like to think that he's more suspicious of the LR's motives, as 
mentioned above.  You have these punies stumble into your lair, and they 
don't want to do business.  That means they are there for other reasons....
>> 4F     Why is this verse used here?  In the Spiritual teachings section at 
>> beginning of the book, it says this verse is to teach that "A belief in
>> success through Christ's strength can lead to an assignment from 
God"  Now,
>> I'm not saying that this statement can't be true.  What I'm saying is that
>> this verse doesn't seem appropriate for that point.  Paul is talking 
>> being persecuted and being content in all situations (read the previous
>> verses).  I'm thinking about putting in a new verse here.
>Getting out of the Underground Glade?  I don't have the reference in front 
>me, but there is no human way out of that glade with the tools at hand.  
So the
>LRs have to learn to trust in the OverLord to provide the way out.
       See my comments on this topic on the following e-mail
>> 6J, 6K  Again, what's the giant's motivation for offering gold to the LR's?
>> Why does he attack them for only refusing a drink?  I would like to flesh 
>> out a bit.
>Anything to make them his friends.  Ultimately, to keep them from going 
up the
>path, which is his real job.  I am sure the dragons would be mad at 
>their dinner interupted.  Again, it is like "If you don't want to be my 
>then you are my enemy.  Die pig!"
       I never thought of it that way before:   that the giant had some latent 
purpose in waylaying folks that came up the trail.  I would still like to see 
the conversation fleshed out a bit more, maybe like this:
       The giant sees these folks coming up the trail.  As a guard to the 
dragons layer, he's thinking,  'Why is someone coming up the trail?   This 
is suspicious.'  So, in order to discover their true motives, he asks them to 
sit a spell and chat.  If they refuse, he knows there's something up and 
attacks.  If they sit down with him, he engages them in small talk.  
Somewhere along the line he asks, "Do you know who lives up there? 
That's the lair of Dragon So-and-so."  He starts going on about how 
generous and kind he is, and then says,."The dragon and me are friends, 
you know.  If you'd like, I can get you some of that gold."  The giant's 
purpose, of course, would be later to charge the travelers with a loan, and 
demand repayment.  When they refuse his offer of gold, he says, "Well, 
suit yourself,  I'm just trying to be a pal.  Say, would you like some of my 
Friendship Juice?"  When they refuse, he gets offended and suspicious.  
"What's wrong with you people!  I offer you gold, and you refuse.  I offer you 
drink, and you refuse.  What's going on?  What's your purpose here?"  
When he doesn't get the answer he's looking for, he attacks.
>> 8C     What is Gareth's current PV?  How much PV does the Healing 
>> restore with each dose?
>His PV should be 4 or 5, just above unconciousness.  It should be 5 PV 
>each dose, but I do not have the adventure in front of me at the moment.
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							steve brown