Steve, I also think that there is a case where we are sensitive to problems people may have with the alcohol issue and thus abstain, not that they are demanding but that we are sensitive. Yet, we are in agreement. ------------------------------------ Wallers Baptist Church Pastor derick@... PO Box 95 Partlow VA 22534 tel: 540-582-5703 mobile: 540-894-1772 www.thedickensfamily.org ------------------------------------ > -----Original Message----- > From: Steven G. Rockhill [mailto:revrock@...] > Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2005 3:44 PM > To: pastorsforum@... > Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] THE WINE ISSUE - weaker brother issue > > > Thanks Derick, > That was sort of my point - some 'weaker brethren' are not this > gracious and would 'demand' that it be their way or no way at > all. That > is what I meant by the 'tyranny of the weaker brother' - > because of his > unloving attitude he basically forces the other person to > conform to his > way so he himself is not offended. > > Peace, > Steve > > Also keeping Lacie and baby Dickens in prayer. > > > Derick Dickens wrote: > > Steve, > > > > I agree with you on your points. Yet, I am free to drink or not to > > drink. I choose not to drink. Yet, if I were at your > house I would > > have no problem if you had a glass of wine for your meal. > To me, this > > would be a wonderful addition to your meal. Yet, in my > case I would > > not partake. > > > > When in Brazil I was given the top Brazilian Wine as a gift > from some > > high officials. Since I do not drink and yet I did not > want to offend > > them, I took the bottle home. There, a good Presbyterean brother > > received a wonderful gift. > > > > So, I do agree with you on that point and there are some very > > important Christian leaders I have sat down with who had > wine. I was > > not offended but would not partake. > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Wallers Baptist Church > > Pastor > > derick@... > > PO Box 95 > > Partlow VA 22534 > > tel: 540-582-5703 > > mobile: 540-894-1772 > > www.thedickensfamily.org > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > >>-----Original Message----- > >>From: Steven G. Rockhill [mailto:revrock@...] > >>Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2005 11:12 AM > >>To: pastorsforum@... > >>Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] THE WINE ISSUE - weaker brother issue > >> > >> > >>Derick, > >> I am glad you brought up the 'weaker brother' issue. It > >>is certainly > >>wise and proper to refrain from any appearance of evil not causing > >>anyone to stumble. And for this reason, though I have no > >>problem having > >>a glass of wine now and then, I do not keep it in the house > >>nor order it > >>when eating out. > >> However, there is such a thing as the "tyranny of the weaker > >>brother." That is when we allow the 'weaker brother' to bind our > >>consciences by forbidding the use of wine ever. We must > >>remember that > >>the 'weaker brother' should not stay in a state of "weakness" - but > >>should be urged to grow in the strength, grace and maturity > >>of the Lord > >>and knowledge of Scripture. So if anything - hopefully the 'weaker > >>brothers' on the forum here are learning and growing - not > that they > >>have to ever drink wine, that is their own personal choice - but > >>acknowledging the truth of the Scripture that drinking wine in > >>moderation is not forbidden and they should not condemn those who > >>practice this with self-control. > >> > >>Also - like many on the forum > alcohol (and drugs) have > >>wreaked havoc > >>on my family - ultimately claiming the life of my eldest > >>brother. But a > >>sinful heart was more the issue and the alcohol was just the tool. > >> > >>Peace, > >>Steve > >> > >>Derick Dickens wrote: > >> > >> > >>>David, > >>> > >>>Don't forget to take a little wine for your stomach and > don't forget > >>>that Jesus' Wine that he had served was better by human > >> > >>standards than > >> > >>>the other wine... seems they were both alcoholic. > >>> > >>>I also think it is amazing that we take no verses of > prohibition and > >>>turn it into a hard rule against alcohol. Yes, wine is a > >> > >>mocker and > >> > >>>druckenness is terrible. Yet, Jesus turns water into wine > >> > >>and there is > >> > >>>a clear understanding that wine was used. I do not drink > >> > >>at all because > >> > >>>I use the weaker brother verses but when approached on the > >> > >>subject I > >> > >>>simply say, "I would not do it because you can cause > >> > >>someone to fall." > >> > >>>not "There is an outright prohibition against drinking." > >>> > >>>Derick > >>> > >>> > >>>Derick Dickens <http://www.thedickensfamily.org/> > >>> > >>> > >>>Pastor Wallers Baptist Church > >>>PO Box 95 > >>>Partlow VA 22534 > >>> > >> > >><http://maps.yahoo.com/py/maps.py?Pyt=Tmap&addr=PO+Box+95&csz= > > > > Partlow+VA+22534&country=us> > > > >>derick@... <mailto:derick@...> > >>www.thedickensfamily.org <http://www.thedickensfamily.org/> > >>tel: > >>mobile: 540-582-5703 > >>540-894-1772 > >> > >> > >> > >>Signature powered by Plaxo <http://www.plaxo.com/signature> > Want a > >>signature like this? <http://www.plaxo.com/signature> > >> > >>Add me to your address book... > >><https://www.plaxo.com/add_me?u=21475105341&v0=517300&k0=393677647> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Pastor David Warner [mailto:dwarner@...] > >> Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2005 10:37 AM > >> To: pastorsforum@... > >> Subject: RE: [PastorsForum] THE WINE ISSUE > >> > >> I think it is amazing how men will stretch and outright > fabricate > > > > a > > > >> permission to drink and then claim it is founded upon > the Word of > > > > God. > > > >> While some of these verses might not be a conclusive prohibition > >> against fermented wine, the whole of Scripture is. One has to > > > > take > > > >> these less clear verses in light of the very clear verses. > > > > Consider > > > >> Proverbs 20:1 > >> > >> Prov. 20:1 Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and > > > > whosoever > > > >> is deceived thereby is not wise. > >> > >> > >> David Warner > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > -- > > To unsubscribe, send ANY message to: > > pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... > > > > "In essential things, unity; in non-essential things, > liberty; and in > > all things, charity." > > > > -- > > To unsubscribe, send ANY message to: > > pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... > > > > "In essential things, unity; in non-essential things, > liberty; and in > > all things, charity." > > > > > > -- > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > ++++++++++++++++ > Pastor Steven G. Rockhill > Lisbon Reformed Presbyterian Church > PO Box 88 > Lisbon, NY 13658 > 315-393-9041 > revrock@... > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > +++++++++++++++ > > -- > To unsubscribe, send ANY message to: > pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... > > "In essential things, unity; in non-essential things, > liberty; and in all things, charity." > >