DW,
Exactly, the choice is being filled with either the spirit of alcohol or the Spirit of God. But the medium is drink. Paul's clear warning is not to be drunk on wine. But would you say to a person who doesn't drink ANY (not a yell but emphasis) wine at all to "be not drunk with wine"? No, because it wouldn't make sense to say to a tetotaler "don't drink any alcohol". So, it seems obvious to me, that Timothy did at some time or other consume something, to some degree or other, that could possible cause drunkenness.
I do not drink at all but because of intellectual honesty the wine issue has always caused me some concern. I had been taught all drinking was wrong but, although condemnation of drunkenness is clear in the Bible, total absinence from wine was not clear to me in the Bible. So, I did a 25 page paper in my 3rd year of college on 'Wine in the Bible' and did it form an etymological (words and their history) perspective. I think to do so, with biblical honest and without preconceived ideas or prejudices, will clearly suggest that from the earliest mentions of wine the Bible is full of those who have "partaken" of alcoholic wine.
All of this though does not commend, suggest, infer, condone or even allow drunkenness. Let the Bibled speak.
DG
The choice here is wine or the Holy Spirit. When you are filled with one (to whatever degree) you will diminish the other. The instruction is to be FILLED with the Holy Spirit and you will not be filling up on the wine. Now, make your choice between the two provided in Scripture.
-----Original Message-----
From: Dale Gooding [mailto:prosperityfbc@...]
Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 7:07 AM
To: pastorsforum@...
Subject: RE: [PastorsForum] What Does the Bible Say
Just a question.
How much sense would it make to say "Timothy ( or anyone else) be not drunk with "must" (fresh juice of the grape), or grape juice, or Welch's, wherein is excess. But, be filled with the Holy Spirit". There are 2 primary words for wine in the NT (gluekos & oinos). Both are pretty general (as opposed to the OT where you have at least 13 words and several are very specific (shakar = inebriation). So, the context has much to day about the meaning of the word in the text. Therefore, Paul must not have been telling Timothy or the Ephesians to drink grape juice.
DG