DW,
I didn't say taking a stand and not going is prideful. If that is a
person's position, it is fully his perogative.
What I was talking about was judgementally saying that those who choose to
go are in sin. I was not accusing anyone in this discussion of that. I
mentioned some extreme situations I have seen in the past from previous
ministries I have worked with or been aquainted with..
If a person is prideful and boastful, whether in the fact that he went or
did not, it still the sin of pride.
This particular issue has a lot to do with our personal witness to the body
and unbelievers. I try to take every opportunity to share the Light of
Christ everywhere I can. When the place is full of darkness, His light
shines brighter still.
I do not look down upon those who would choose not to go. It is their
personal conviction and they should like according to it.
Years ago in Brazil if you wanted to buy something at night (including
medicine) you had to go to a bar. All the other stores closed at 6pm.
Sometimes at night I would remember that I needed something. I had never
been to a bar before. I was obviously afraid of blowing my testimony in the
city. If I needed something, I would stand in the door and ask the owner to
come out. He would bring me what I wanted and I would pay him. This didn't
happen very often but soon he found out I was a pastor. One night he told
me that his son was a pastor. I knew his son. We had ministered together.
Often, I would see him in the street and we would chat. Sometimes he would
invite me to his house for lunch. One day he invited his son and I to have
lunch with him. He asked us to pray for him and he accepted Christ. One
week later he passed away.
This situation taught me to make the most of every opportunity. I never
thought a bartender would become my friend and one of our first converts but
I am sure glad it did happen.
Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Warner" <dwarner@...>
To: <pastorsforum@...>
Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 4:03 PM
Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] wine
> Mark and others who have voiced this same sentiment--
>
> Do you also feel it is judgmental and boasting making a decision about
> participating in a wineful event and that it is also definitely prideful?
> Several have stated they would go, have gone, will go again and gave
> several details of their attending and motive for it. I did not see any
> accusations of being prideful, boastful, judgmental, and on and on with
> the negative comments directed toward those who stated they would not go
> and gave Biblical reasons.
>
> DW
>
>
>
>
>> Brian
>>
>> I know what you mean. Making a decision not to participate or even go
>> is personal but being judgemental and boasting about not participating
>> is definitely prideful
>>
>> I remember hearing many preachers when I was growing up saying it was a
>> sin to buy groceries from a grocery store that sold beer. We had a
>> large chain of stores in Nashville at that time who wouldn't sell beer
>> or open on Sunday and these preachers would tell us to shop there. That
>> chain changed their policy several years ago and now sell beer. As far
>> as I know there are no grocery stores in the area that do not sell
>> alcohol. Where do these guys buy groceries now? Is it no longer a sin
>> because there is no other option?
>>
>> One group of churches I know taught for many years that it was ok to
>> drink pepsi from a bottle but not a can. If you put the cans in the
>> trash and they rattled around, your garbage man might think they were
>> beer cans. That was their reasoning.
>>
>> This is the problem with traditions taking the place of personal
>> righteousness in the life of a believer. We are the salt that refuses
>> to get out of the shaker.
>>
>> Mark
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Brian La Croix
>> To: pastorsforum@...
>> Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 1:58 PM
>> Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] wine
>>
>>
>> Absolutely not! I apologize if I gave that impression.
>>
>> My point was that there ARE some who are prideful in their
>> dis-association. Much like the Pharisees and such who were more
>> worried about staining themselves by being around sinners than
>> about the souls of those people. "Thank You, Lord, that I'm not
>> like that tax collector over there. I'm SO much better than
>> him!"
>>
>> The pride is where the "holier-than-thou" part comes in. If a
>> person has a conviction that they cannot be a part of that
>> event, because they feel it would disobedient to go, then they
>> must not go! To do otherwise would be sin (Romans 14:22-23).
>>
>> For others, they come from a background where alcohol was a
>> problem, and they must distance themselves from it, because they
>> may have a weakness for it. They should not be involved.
>>
>> I hope that clears up my thoughts. Again, I apologize for
>> offending anyone who would disagree with my position!
>>
>> Brian
>>
>> Pastor Brian La Croix
>> Aberdeen Wesleyan Church
>> 1701 8th Ave NE
>> Aberdeen, SD 57401
>> (605) 225-2873
>> www.aberdeenwesleyan.org
>> P_B@...
>>
>> -------Original Message-------
>>
>> From: pastorsforum@...
>> Date: 12/30/05 10:46:48
>> To: pastorsforum@...
>> Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] wine
>>
>> Brian,
>> Surely you are not suggesting that a pastor who choices to NOT
>> attend a wedding reception where alcohol is served is
>> necessarily "holier-than-thou" ? jerry k
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Brian La Croix
>> To: pastorsforum@...
>> Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 7:06 AM
>> Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] wine
>>
>>
>> I've done a number of weddings where there was alcohol at
>> the reception, and I knew it before-hand.
>>
>> It is assumed anymore in our culture that the reception
>> will involve drinking. That doesn't make it right, but
>> it's a fact in our society.
>>
>> When I attend the reception, I am always asked to pray for
>> the meal, and my family and I stay to eat.
>>
>> Everyone knows I don't drink, and that we don't allow it
>> on our church grounds. But hopefully they also see that I
>> love and care for them, and won't be sitting at home or in
>> my office feeling "holier-than-thou" because I refused to
>> be with them. I laugh and joke and visit with the guests,
>> especially those at my table.
>>
>> I want my family to see that it's possible to be salt and
>> light around people who don't believe as we do or behave
>> like we do. Obviously, if there was sinful activity going
>> on, we would leave immediately. I'm one of those who
>> don't think it's a sin to drink, and I'm not going to
>> debate all that here. My point is that if we had
>> witnessed drunkenness or under-age drinking, or other
>> types of sinful behavior, we would excuse ourselves. We
>> stay long enough to eat and be polite, then leave.
>>
>> This has also led to the opportunities to share the gospel
>> with some of these people, because they know I won't beat
>> them over the head because I saw them drinking at the
>> reception. I guess they felt that they could talk and not
>> worry about a judgmental attitude.
>>
>> I'm going to start another thread on a related subject, so
>> see you in a bit!
>>
>> Pastor Brian La Croix
>> Aberdeen Wesleyan Church
>> 1701 8th Ave NE
>> Aberdeen, SD 57401
>> (605) 225-2873
>> www.aberdeenwesleyan.org
>> P_B@...
>>
>> -------Original Message-------
>>
>> From: pastorsforum@...
>> Date: 12/29/05 21:35:34
>> To: pastorsforum@...
>> Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] wine
>>
>> Thank you Kevin. I knew I wasn't the only one who saw an
>> opportunity here. Last year I went down to Florida to
>> perform a wedding ceremony for my niece, on the beach. My
>> sister and her family drink and so does my niece's
>> husband's family. I knew there would be alcohol at the
>> reception and originally told my sister that I would not
>> stay for the reception. This was my plan right up to the
>> moments after the wedding.
>>
>> However, when the wedding was all over, I just felt
>> compelled to stay. I talked it over with my wife and we
>> did decided to stay. Obviously, I didn't drink and neither
>> did my wife. Later on, my sister told my wife that it
>> meant so much to her that we stayed.
>>
>> Think whatever you want about me, but I felt the Lord used
>> the moment to show my sister, who I believe is saved, (and
>> no, I won't get into a discussion on once saved, always
>> saved) the love of Christ along with a few others.
>>
>> And I did present the Gospel as part of the message.
>>
>> In Christ,
>> R. Dean Pesnell, 205-821-4989, rdeanpesnell@...
>> Pastor, Katherwood Baptist Church
>> Officer/Chaplain, Birmingham Police Dept.
>> II Cor 5:17
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Kevin Sigafoos" <ksigafoos@...>
>> To: <pastorsforum@...>
>> Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2005 8:46 PM
>> Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] wine
>>
>>
>> Sometimes it's the family that wants the booze at the
>> reception and not the bride and groom.
>>
>> Such was the case at my wedding. My mother-in-law was
>> paying for it and she "required" an open bar so that the
>> guests can have their fun. The guests toasted us with
>> sparkling grape juice though.
>>
>> The pastor who married us doesn't drink but he thought it
>> was a good opportunity to talk to people who would never
>> step foot into a church.
>> I agree. Jesus wasn't ashamed to be associated with
>> sinners.
>>
>> On 12/29/05, Jerry <jelewis@...> wrote:
>> > Do any of y'all refuse to do a wedding if there are
>> alcoholic beverages consumed at the reception?
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>> Grace and peace,
>> Kevin Sigafoos
>> ---------------------
>> For from him and through him and to him are all things. To
>> him be glory forever. Amen. (Rom 11:36)
>>
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>>
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>>
>>
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>>
>>
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>> "In essential things, unity; in non-essential things, liberty; and in
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>
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