I told you David could not give a straight answer. > > Anyone who is born again is a part of the body of Christ! > doc > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Mike Cantrell<mailto:mcantrell@...> > To: pastorsforum@...<mailto:pastorsforum@...> > Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 1:57 PM > Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] I Peter 3:21 > > > Bro. Doc, do you believe the CoC is a valid part of the body of > Christ? I use the term body of Christ as in your understanding of > it. > > Mike Cantrell > ----- Original Message ----- > From: DAVID POWELL<mailto:dpowellaz@...> > To: pastorsforum@...<mailto:pastorsforum@...> > Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 2:25 PM > Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] I Peter 3:21 > > > Let me get this straight. You are telling Jerry that he is > not saved? If someone asks you to pray with them as they ask > Christ into their heart you refuse until they know and understand > all of the doctrinal stances of your church, right? I said despite > ourselves not despite what we believe. There is a big difference. > They are not saved by what they believe but by whom they believe in. > > I guess then by your definition since I believe that you don't > fully understand the Word of God therefore you do not have the Holy > Spirit. I would not be so presumptious. > > Matt. 7:1-3 Judge not, that ye be not judged. 2 For with > what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure > ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. 3 And why beholdest > thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the > beam that is in thine own eye? > > I believe when you get to heaven, and I do believe that you > will be there, you will find that Baptists will not be the only > ones there and if fact they won't even be in the majority. > > It is you my dear brother who are a slave to the false > doctrines of men. I love you brother so I must be just plain > straight forward with my assessment! Is that clear enough? > doc > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: FIdel Hughes<mailto:embc@...> > To: pastorsforum@...<mailto:pastorsforum@...> > Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 12:48 PM > Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] I Peter 3:21 > > > Jerry K > > you need to be saved > > and like right now > > before you die and go straight to a devils hell > because that is where all go who believe > that baptism saves... > > and no > Doc > > nobody is saved in spite of what they believe > they are saved by what they beleive > and out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks... > > if a preacher doesnt understand the word of God > its because he has no Holy Spirit > > you guys on Pastorforum better key up to the > fact some on here are not saved > > because their blood will be on your hands if you > dont tell the truth > > cute little remarks and we all be brethern statements makes > the lost ones even more > a two fold child of the devil.... > > I know this is harsh but > am I your enemy because I tell you the truth? > > this isnt a game for funsies...its keepies > > and the devil will keep there minds and hearts blinded to > the true gospel if you dont put it out > there as the one and only way to heaven... > > if you guys cant see in some of these posts > false doctrine and deception you are lacking > discernment and are in sad spiritual shape. > > dont be afraid to come against false doctrine just because > you might hurt somebodys cyberspace feelings... > > some of you sure dont care about coming back at the ifb and > their stands ... > > why not come at others false doctrine with the same fervor? > > this bear is out of the cave > I said no more hibernating > > you can email me privately or publically > I am here to help > > but I will not sit by and let puke spill out without > telling you it stinks and needs to be cleaned up > > come on we are supposed to be men of God > > watchmen if you will > > dont pussy foot around or take it lightly > > you and me will all give an account someday > > and for some it aint gonna be pretty > > later > pastor hughes > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jerry Krewson<mailto:krewfam@...> > To: pastorsforum@...<mailto:pastorsforum@...> > Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 9:57 AM > Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] I Peter 3:21 > > > Mike, > I won't go at this to long, because we are not going to > convince each other, but I will answer. > King James Version says: vs. 20, "...eight souls were > saved by water." That's not a 'butcher' job, that is what it says, > and seems plain enough to me. Peter could have said 'eight souls > were saved by water.' but he didn't. > > Mike, there are many things written in the Bible that I > don't like, but it is there, and I don't try to explain it away. I > understand perfectly well that we can not take one particular word > or verse of the Bible and base a doctrine only on that. > > There is way to much expaining way, today, many of the > clear teachings of the Word because it doesn't fit what a person > likes. I know you agree with this statement: "Jesus saith unto him, > 'I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the > Father, but by me.'" Now that is plain enough to me and you. > However, we know that there is a growing movement within a part of > the Christian community [I use that loosely] that are propagating > that there are many ways to the Father. It would be much more > convinent for me to explain away the obvious teaching of that text. > It would be convient to explain it away, because my mother never > excepted Jesus. But the sense and the text is too obvious; I can't > explain it away just because it hurts so bad. > > To me, I Peter 3:21 is just a obvious. It may not fit what > I wish it would be, but it is as plain as John 14:6. > jerry k > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Mike Cantrell<mailto:mcantrell@...> > To: pastorsforum@...<mailto:pastorsforum@...> > Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 6:08 AM > Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] I Peter 3:21 > > > Jerry K., one question, was it the water that saved > them, or the ark? > > Mike Cantrell > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jerry Krewson<mailto:krewfam@...> > To: pastorsforum@...<mailto:pastorsforum@...> > Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 11:59 PM > Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] I Peter 3:21 > > > Ok Mike, > I will give it a stab. It won't be satisfactory to > you, but so be it. > > The context is God was longsuffering in the days of > Noah, and "eight souls were saved by water." Then Peter says, "The > like figure...," in that, Peter is referring to the water that > saved the eight. It is the antitype of what Peter says immediately > after: "...whereunto even [my highlight] baptism doth also [my > highlight] save us." He is says by using the term 'the like > figure,' the one resembles the other. > > Mike, Peter squeezes "The like figure" right in > between water and water [baptism]. > > When Peter says "not the putting away of the filth of > the flesh," I believe him to be saying, 'there is nothing > supernatural or mystical in going under the water in and of its > self. Just because you go under water does not cleanse you. What > makes it baptism is "the answer of a good conscience toward God." > > One other thought before I hit the hay. If you are > right, and baptism is a figure of the gospel of Christ, in that it > is what Peter meant to say, I look forward to asking him why he > just didn't put it that way. > > I am only a simply thinker, but it seems to this > simple mind that if Peter didn't mean 'baptism saved,' but really > meant the gospel saves [and it does], he would have said it. > > I apologies in that I do not put my thoughts down on > paper [I will call this paper] as well as I should be able. My > wasted, spent youth comes back to haunt me in my writing. > jerry k > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Mike Cantrell<mailto:mcantrell@...> > To: > pastorsforum@...<mailto:pastorsforum@...> > Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 6:12 PM > Subject: [PastorsForum] I Peter 3:21 > > > I cannot stand by and see this without saying > something. Jerry you have taken I Peter 3:21 and separated it from > context. Also, have butchered the verse. It say, THE LIKE FIGURE ( > Caps mine) whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the > putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good > conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: > > The Figure it is referring to is the Gospel of > Christ. The death, burial and resurrection! Baptism is a figure > of the Gospel just like the Ark was a figure of the Gospel. > > Mike Cantrell. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jerry Krewson<mailto:krewfam@...> > To: > pastorsforum@...<mailto:pastorsforum@...> > Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 7:33 PM > Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] Baptist Bride > > > David, > You keep on writing. The more you write, the > closer to the truth you are getting. > #1. There is only one kind of church and that is > the church Jesus built. Amen: churches of Christ. > > #2. Now, go back and study the passage you cited > below and see if it is talking about a denomination or a position > of the churches in Christ or rather, the churches that are of > Christ. Amen again. Paul is not talking about a denomination. And > the church[es] of Christ I belong to are not a part of a > denomination. > > #3. The KJV is not wrong. Never has been and > never will be. Absolutely. That brings me to a very interesting > passage right out of the King James Version: I Peter 3:21. Now > since the KJV is never wrong, it either means what it says, or it > is going to take another book written [plenty out there already] to > explain why it doesn't mean what it says. > > I can hear several Baptist pastors saying: "It > says what it means and means what it says, BUT!!! > > Now when Peter writes: "...even baptism doth ALSO > [Capitals mine] now save us..." Peter and the King James Bible are > wrong, or you are going to have to explain it away. > > You know, I didn't write I Peter 1:21, Peter did. > > jerry k > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Pastor David Warner<mailto:dwarner@...> > To: > pastorsforum@...<mailto:pastorsforum@...> > Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 8:55 AM > Subject: RE: [PastorsForum] Baptist Bride > > > Finally nothing. I've been right along. > Finally others are seeing the light. Now, go back and study the > passage you cited below and see if it is talking about a > denomination or a position of the churches in Christ or rather, the > churches that are of Christ. There is no church but Christ's > church or churches of Christ and in doctrine they were then what > that same church is now and most of them are called Baptist > churches, and yes they are still of Christ. The KJV is not wrong. > Never has been and never will be. > > > DW > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jerry Krewson [mailto:krewfam@...] > Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 1:54 AM > To: pastorsforum@... > Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] Baptist Bride > > > Amen David, > Finally. You are right. "There is only one > kind of church and that is the church Jesus built." I hunted all > over my well used KJV, and low and behold, I found it. Darned if it > doesn't say "The churches of Christ salute you." Now that's > scriptural, unless somehow the KJV has it wrong? Halleluiah, God > always has a way of revealing His truth. > > jerry k > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Pastor David Warner<mailto:dwarner@...> > To: > pastorsforum@...<mailto:pastorsforum@...> > Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2006 8:46 PM > Subject: RE: [PastorsForum] Baptist Bride > > > Isn't this like asking if all religions lead > to heaven or just through Jesus Christ? > There is only one kind of church and that is > the church Jesus built. > > DW > > -----Original Message----- > From: DAVID POWELL [mailto:dpowellaz@...] > Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2006 4:46 PM > To: > pastorsforum@...<mailto:pastorsforum@...> > Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] Baptist Bride > > > To whom did Jesus give authority to > baptize? All churches that follow Jesus and the bible or just > Baptist churches? > doc > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Pastor David Warner<mailto:dwarner@...> > To: > pastorsforum@...<mailto:pastorsforum@...> > Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2006 2:21 PM > Subject: RE: [PastorsForum] Baptist Bride > > > > Who did Jesus give the authority to do > the baptizing? The church or just the apostles? > > DW > -----Original Message----- > From: DAVID POWELL [mailto:dpowellaz@...] > Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2005 6:55 PM > To: > pastorsforum@...<mailto:pastorsforum@...> > Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] Baptist Bride > > > I have known Baptist preachers who had > been pastors years before they got saved. What about all those > they had baptized before finally getting saved? > doc > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Pastor Hughes<mailto:embc@...> > To: > pastorsforum@...<mailto:pastorsforum@...> > Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2005 3:26 PM > Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] Baptist Bride > > > just because he quit the ministry > and went into sin means he is not a christian? > > I think not.... > Pastor Hughes > East Mesa Baptist Church > > http://www.eastmesabaptist.com/<http://www.eastmesabaptist.com/> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Mike<mailto:drmike1@...> > To: > pastorsforum@...<mailto:pastorsforum@...> > Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2005 3:23 PM > Subject: RE: [PastorsForum] Baptist Bride > > > The question concerned his > baptisms. Are they null and > > void since, as you said, he is no > longer a Christian? > > > > I'm like you say, he is no longer > a Christian. > > > > Miguel referred to those pastors who weren't > > Proper in their methods. Are these Baptist > > People lost or saved that were baptized by > > This man? > > > > Mike Tittle > > > > Ps. I preach salvation by the blood of Jesus. > > Ain't no other way about it. > > > > > ------------------------------------------------ > > From: Pastor Hughes [mailto:embc@...] > Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2005 5:14 PM > To: pastorsforum@... > Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] Baptist Bride > > > > stopping serving makes this guy no > longer a christian? > > > > what kind of salvation do you preach? > > > > is this scenario common? > > > > > > Pastor Hughes > East Mesa Baptist Church > > http://www.eastmesabaptist.com/<http://www.eastmesabaptist.com/> > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Mike<mailto:drmike1@...> > > To: > pastorsforum@...<mailto:pastorsforum@...> > > Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2005 3:07 PM > > Subject: RE: [PastorsForum] Baptist Bride > > > > > > Hi Miguel, > > > > After reading these posts along > the line of baptism > > I have a question for you. > > > > Since baptism is not accepted by > you or your church, > > Unless it is in a same kind > Baptist church, what do you > > Do when a Baptist minister who has > baptized many people > > Gives up his ministry?:??? In an > earlier post, you mentioned > > That not all ministers are right > in their methods and > > Beliefs. It must be your kind of > Baptist to be proper. > > > > I know a man who was a Baptist > minister, who gave up > > His church, and went back to a > sinful life style. He changed > > Wives, got a new job, and is > obviously no longer a > > Christian. > > > > The typical answer I always get > from Baptist people is > > that he wasn't saved to start > with. If he was truly saved, > > se cannot loose his salvation. > > > > Do all his baptisms have to be > redone by a real preacher? > > Are his converts saved or lost > according to his methods? > > > > > > Mike Tittle > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Miguel > [mailto:fbco@...]<mailto:[mailto:fbco@...]> > Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 12:47 PM > To: pastorsforum@... > Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] Baptist Bride > > > > DOC > > > > I believe we are in agreement - > like faith is Baptist - not just being born again. Our church > by-laws are very clear about baptism - must have been in a baptist > church - else we ask them to re-baptize. It is not whether or I'not > we agree or disagree on method and authority - it has to do with > obedience. We recently had one family come wanting to join - they > were from a pentecostal background - we spent several different > days talking about what we believe - that joining a Baptist church > there are certain doctrines we see different and that joining means > you completely agree 100% with our constitution and by-laws which > spell out what we believe. Everything was in agreement up until we > spoke of baptism and the need for them to re-baptize. They were > ready, but he spoke to his father, there came the issues. We just > praise the Lord he knew better. > > > > When others come from other > baptist churches - it is my point to always call the pastor - if > possible meet face to face with the pastor. Then either the new > couple are told to return and reconcile - first choice or by > agreement they come for counseling upon completion they can join > the church. Counseling length is totally dependent on the situation > and the reason. > > > > Often it has been my experience > that people run rather than face their problems. I believe it is my > responsibility to assist them and train them to face their problems > through Christ Jesus who strengthen us. > > > > Miguel > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: DAVID POWELL<mailto:dpowellaz@...> > > > > To: > pastorsforum@...<mailto:pastorsforum@...> > > Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 12:00 PM > > Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] Baptist Bride > > > > Let me go out on a limb here. > When someone comes to our church and requests membership the first > question I ask is "Are they born again?" The second question I ask > is "Have you been baptized in obedience to Christ?" To us > 'baptism' means to dip or to plunge under the water. If they have > not been baptized by immersion then I ask them to be baptized in > this fashion. If they have been baptized by immersion for the > purpose of obedience not salvation then I do not ask them to be > re-baptized. There are many of my Baptist brothers that even ask > those from other Baptist churches to be re-baptized because they > are from a different brand of Baptists. Authority to baptized does > not come from being a Baptist church but from being a church! I do > have one question for our brethren here on PF. If a family comes > to your church from another church of like faith down the road what > do you do? Do you encourage them to join your church and sort of > take the attitude that the other church's loss is your gain? Or do > you make every effort to contact the pastor of that church to let > him know that one of his flock is visiting your church. I have a > problem with pastors who just take people in without ever letting > the former church know. The problem may not be with the other > church or should I say usually is not with the other church. It > seems too many of us are so concerned with numbers that we are > willing to grow by any means. The best growth for a church is not > transfer growth but growth from people coming to know Christ by > profession of faith. We never accept anyone into the fellowship or > membership of our church without me first talking to the pastor or > leadership of the church they are coming from. I do not proselyte > but sometimes it is God's will for one to change churches. The > problem is that sometimes we are only trading each other's problems. > > God Bless > > doc > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: D. Jackson<mailto:pastor@...> > > To: > pastorsforum@...<mailto:pastorsforum@...> > > Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 7:45 AM > > Subject: RE: [PastorsForum] Baptist Bride > > > > Mike, > > > > I understand that the Baptist > Bride doctrine is probably not prevalent on this forum. I was > really responding to the issue of "alien baptism". To call a > baptism by an authorized minister in a local church alien because > it is not a Baptist church is ridiculous. So I stand by my > statement concerning baptism and repeat it here for clarity: > > > > I baptized 15 people this year > (2005) and to suggest that God is in heaven looking down at His > blood-washed children being baptized and saying: "That doesn't > count since you aren't in a Baptist church. I don't consider this > baptism legitimate since you are doing it in an Assemblies of God > church." Anyone who believes this needs to get back into the Word > and find out where they went off. > > > > Hopefully, neither you nor anyone > else on this forum would consider this "alien". > > > > DJ > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mike Cantrell > [mailto:mcantrell@...] > Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 5:06 PM > To: pastorsforum@... > Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] Baptist Bride > > > > Bro. you need to read all the post > and perhaps slowly, because no one has said that the only Baptist > were in the Bride. However, there were in the past and they are > still a few today that believe this. No one has said that baptism > is necessary for salvation, or that only Baptist will be in heaven. > Many times there is a rush to judgment on some folks part and > they really do not read the posts entirely. They are so ready to > espouse what they think that they cannot consider what others are > saying. Even some blow smoke into the issue to cloud it and then > hijack for their dogma. > > > > Mike Cantrell > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: D. Jackson<mailto:pastor@...> > > > > > > To: > pastorsforum@...<mailto:pastorsforum@...> > > Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 1:29 PM > > Subject: RE: [PastorsForum] Baptist Bride > > > > This Baptist Bride business has > surprised me. I baptized 15 people this year (2005) and to suggest > that God is in heaven looking down at His blood-washed children > being baptized and saying: "That doesn't count since you aren't in > a Baptist church. I don't consider this baptism legitimate since > you are doing it in an Assemblies of God church." Anyone who > believes this needs to get back into the Word and find out where > they went off. > > > > DJ > > > > --To unsubscribe, send ANY message to: > pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... 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