And that is your opinion and you can have it.  B-)

> 
> While there were groups that broke off from the Roman Church and a 
> few reformers here and there who spoke out against Church polity 
> and doctrine, there is just no evidence that a sustained group of 
> churches existed parallel to the Roman Church until the 
> Reformation.  The New Testament church within a hundred years of 
> the ressurection was already having problems.  After Constantine 
> and especially after  Flavius Theodosius, the church quickly became 
> universal (catholic) in it's government and practices.  Over the 
> next several hundred years there were some great men (Augustine 
> comes to mind) who taught truth but elements of catholicism were 
> creeping in.  By the 9th century, the church had become truly 
> Catholic.  After that there are several groups who break away, 
> though still not completely orthodox in their theology (the 
> Lollards, Waldensians, etc).  Not until the Reformation does the 
> Body of Christ truly have what I would call New Testament churches.
> 
> But that's just my opinion.
> 
> Mark
>    ----- Original Message -----
>    From: Pastor David Warner
>    To: pastorsforum@...
>    Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 7:54 PM
>    Subject: RE: [PastorsForum] Trail of Blood
> 
> 
>    Mark, Do you believe there were no "true to the Bible" churches 
> until the 16th century or perhaps until your church came along?
>    When do you think a real NT church first came into existence and 
> do you think once it came into existence it has remained or do they 
> come and go?
> 
>    DW
> 
>      -----Original Message-----
>      From: Mark McPherson [mailto:mark@...]
>      Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 12:58 PM
>      To: pastorsforum@...
>      Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] Trail of Blood
> 
> 
>      Well the main thing is the low number of references (ie 
> footnotes or endnotes).  Most of them have to do with events after 
> the 16th century anyway.
> 
>      He cites no historical document that there were Baptists 
> before the 16th century.  And that is his claim.  I can say there 
> have always been McDonald's since the time of Christ but if I don't 
> have historical record to back it up it is simply conjecture.  
> That's what this book is.  That makes it bad scholarship.
> 
>      Pick up Cairns "Christianity through the Centuries" or 
> Leitzmann's "A History of the Early Church".  Those will give you 
> examples of good scholarship.
> 
>      Mark
>        ----- Original Message -----
>        From: Jeff Hallmark
>        To: pastorsforum@...
>        Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 2:13 PM
>        Subject: [PastorsForum] Trail of Blood
> 
> 
> 
> 
>        So you think it is 'bad scholarship' well here is a link to 
> it, show us the 'bad scholarship'
> 
>        http://www.biblepreaching.com/trailofblood.html
> 
>        at your own time and leisure
> 
>        jeff
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>          "Trail of Blood".  That was the name of the book that I 
> couldn't remember!  Talk about bad scholarship.  I've read some 
> poor writings on Church History but is one of the worst.
> 
>          Mark
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> "In essential things, unity; in non-essential things, liberty; and 
> in all things, charity."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> To unsubscribe, send ANY message to: pastorsforum-unsubscribe@...
> 
> "In essential things, unity; in non-essential things, liberty; and 
> in all things, charity."
> 
> 
> --
> To unsubscribe, send ANY message to: pastorsforum-unsubscribe@...
> 
> "In essential things, unity; in non-essential things, liberty; and 
> in all things, charity."



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