Great answer Mark!!!!

I have two pet snakes myself .... Graybanded Kingsnakes.  They are native to 
SW Texas, New Mexico, and Mexico.  My wife, a Kindergarten teacher, 
sometimes keeps them in her classroom.  She also has a box turtle named 
Myrtle in her classroom.

I believe there is a two-fold application of Mark 16, ... the figurative as 
you have ably explained and then the literal as illustrated by Paul when he 
was shipwrecked on the island in the Med.  As he picked up wood for a fire, 
a viper bit him on the hand ... Paul just shook it off into the fire and 
kept on working.  Note: he did not wrap the venomous snake around his neck 
and take off shouting and dancing ....  God vivaciously protected him from 
danger.

It is pure foolishness to grab a rattlesnake into your arms and dare him to 
bite and kill you as you shout and jerk around.....

I have seen video documentary of snake handling churches and it is very 
disturbing to watch people under such deception.  It seems that some people 
lose all common sense when they go to church.

I have caught and handled poisonous snakes with my bare hands, but I never 
take them to church.  And no, I do not wrap them around my neck or do 
anything foolish with them to prove I have faith.

Jerry L


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark McPherson" <mark@...>
To: <pastorsforum@...>
Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 11:39 AM
Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] Cessasationism


> Kevin, I answered this in a post to DW.  I'll paste it here.  (BTW I do 
> "handle" snakes (herpeton) but it has nothing to do with worship.  I just 
> like snakes.  I'd have one as a pet but the wife will have no part of it - 
> of course I am not talking about poisonous ones!)
>
>
> I'm glad you asked this.  The Greek word for serpent here is ophis which 
> means a figurative, not literal snake.  There is another Greek word used 
> in the NT, herpeton, which does mean a literal snake.  Herpetology is the 
> scientific study of snakes and reptiles.
>
> Anyway, this word ophis is used several times (14) in the NT.  In Matthew 
> 23:33, Jesus calls the scribe and Pharisees serpents and uses this word. 
> In Rev 20:2 the devil is called an old serpent (ophis)
>
> This is what Vine's Expository Dictionary (which is definitely not a 
> Pentecostal leaning book) says about ophis
>
>
> SERPENT
>
> 1. ophis ^3789^: the characteristics of the "serpent" as alluded to in 
> Scripture are mostly evil (though <Matt. 10:16> refers to its caution in 
> avoiding danger); its treachery, <Gen. 49:17; 2 Cor. 11:3>; its venom, 
> <Ps. 58:4; 1 Cor. 10:9; Rev. 9:19>; its skulking, <Job 26:13>; its 
> murderous proclivities, e. g., <Ps. 58:4; Prov. 23:32; Eccl. 10:8,11; Amos 
> 5:19; Mark 16:18; Luke 10:19>; the Lord used the word metaphorically of 
> the scribes and Pharisees, <Matt. 23:33> (cf. echidna, "viper," in <Matt. 
> 3:7; 12:34>). The general aspects of its evil character are intimated in 
> the Lord's rhetorical question in <Matt. 7:10> and <Luke 11:11>. Its 
> characteristics are concentrated in the archadversary of God and man, the 
> Devil, metaphorically described as the serpent, <2 Cor. 11:3; Rev. 
> 12:9,14,15; 20:2>. The brazen "serpent" lifted up by Moses was symbolical 
> of the means of salvation provided by God, in Christ and His vicarious 
> death under the divine judgment upon sin, <John 3:14>. While the living 
> "serpent" symbolizes sin in its origin, hatefulness, and deadly effect, 
> the brazen "serpent" symbolized the bearing away of the curse and the 
> judgment of sin; the metal was itself figurative of the righteousness of 
> God's judgment.#
> (from Vine's Expository Dictionary of Biblical Words)
> (Copyright (C) 1985, Thomas Nelson Publishers)
>
> It doesn't mean literal snakes but figurative snakes such as the devil and 
> demons.  This is the promise of protection from the Lord when we confront 
> powers and principalities of this world.  The early church cast out demons 
> and spoke in tongues as verse 17 says but I have never found a historical 
> record where they literally handled snakes.  They obviously understood the 
> difference in the two Greek words.  (incidentally I once visited a 
> snake-handling church back in Tennessee but that's another story)
>
> Verse 18 continues "and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt 
> them".  I don't think anyone in their right mind would knowing drink 
> something deadly.  Obviously Christ is talking about drink something 
> deadly accidentally or unknowingly.  If they were suppose to do it He 
> would have said "when" and not "if".  I believe this is speaking about 
> divine protection for those who believe.  Luke 10:19 says something 
> similar:
>
>
> Luke 10:19
> 19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and 
> over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.
> (KJV)
>
> BTW, the word for serpent here is ophis as well.
>
> I hope that answers your question.
>
> Mark
>
> PS As always in my posts to this forum, all Greek words used in this post 
> are directly from the Textus Receptus.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Kevin Sigafoos" <ksigafoos@...>
> To: <pastorsforum@...>
> Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 12:36 PM
> Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] Cessasationism
>
>
> On 1/5/06, Mark McPherson <mark@...> wrote:
>>
>> I know that someone on here said that signs were only for the Jews. I 
>> can't
>> remember who it was - maybe I need a word of knowledge (grin)
>>
>> Mark 16 says something else
>>
>> 17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they
>> cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
>> 18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it 
>> shall
>> not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
>> (KJV)
>>
>> These signs follow those who believe.  Not follow the Apostles, but those
>> who believe.  And I can't find a time limit on it.  It doesn't say 
>> "Warning:
>> this will expire in AD 100"  ;-)
>>
>> Mark
>
> Mark,
>
> Just curious ... do you pick up snakes and drink poison?  I know that
> there are some that do (and in KY if I recall correctly).  I also know
> that some of the snake handlers die each year as a result of their
> "worship."
>
> --
>
>
> Grace and peace,
> Kevin Sigafoos
> ---------------------
> For from him and through him and to him are all things. To him be
> glory forever. Amen. (Rom 11:36)
>
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