I have been out of the loop for a while and Saw this question originally, and wanted to answer the question. Excuse me if I lack Scripture references for I am in a place that makes me unable to get to a Bible. The question begs to discuss the nature of original sin and the philosophical question, "Are we a sinner therefore we sin or are do we sin therefore we are a sinner." Original sin from Adam and Eve is still with us to a degree. In some regards, we have been saved from the "power" of sin, but we have not been saved from the "presence" of sin. In other words, sin has no more power over us. We are also saved from the penalty of sin. Thus, until glorification, we still have to deal with the presence of sin in our own life and in the world. As a result, in some regards we are still sinners (I John says that if we say we have no sin, we make God a liar, Paul said that he "is" the chief of sinners). Thus in some sense we are still sinners. Yet, we do not have the power of sin in our life that is present before our salvation. Before (to borrow a phrase from history), we could not not (sic) sin. We were powerless to overcome sin in our own life. Today, the power of sin does not rule over us and it is possible for us to do good and to not sin. Of course, we are clothed in Christ's righteousness who was the propitiation for our sins, and as a result, we are saved from the penalty of sin. Thus, the definition of what you mean is important. If you are saying that we are no longer able to sin, I would disagree. Yet, if you would ask whether positionally in Christ's realm are we viewed as sinners, I would discount that as well for Christ was our propitiation and justifier. Derick > Thanks, Jimbo, ... you have presented what I believe to be excellent and > very wise answers to these questions. > > It is strange how we often can get so wrapped up in insignificant things > and fail to give attention to weightier matters .... > > Jerry > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: J & M > To: pastorsforum@... > Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 6:34 AM > Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] Is the Christian believer a "sinner"? > > > Good questions Jerry, and being ignored, I see, on our forum, so we can > fight about Baptists again :). > > A Christian's identity is not a "sinner", but a saint. 1 Co 1:2 Unto the > church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ > Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the > name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours: > > Over and over, as you know, in the epistles, the believer is called a > saint. We are "in Christ" and have put on the new man. > Paul referred to himself as the "chief of sinners" in 1 Tim. 1:15, but > he seems to be referring to his past as a blasphemer and violent man (1 > Tim. 1:13). > > The believer today who says of himself (and TO himself) "I'm nothing but > a no-good old sinner" is not being humble, he's being deceived. While > it may seem humble, it may also give him an excuse to commit sin. When > he sees himself in Christ as the saint he is, it calls him to holiness, > to live up to his name and identity. > > Do we sin? Yes. The same book of 1 Jn. you quote in 3:9 and 5:18 > clearly states at the outset that believers DO sin and need to confess > those sins to God: 1 Jn 1:8-10 8 If we say that we have no > sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.9 If we confess > our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse > us from all unrighteousness.10 If we say that we have not sinned, we > make him a liar, and his word is not in us. > > The identifying marks of the unbeliever are given in 1 Jn. 3:10 as the > one who does not do what is right and does not love his brother. The > believer does not live in a pattern of sinfulness like this. That does > not mean he will always love a brother perfectly or that he will never > sin. It means that these sins will not be the defining characteristics > of his character. > > Jimbo > >