[pastorsforum] Re: [PastorsForum] Calvinism vs. Arminianism

Message: < previous - next > : Reply : Subscribe : Cleanse
Home   : June 2006 : Group Archive : Group : All Groups

From: "Derick R. Dickens" <Derick@...>
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 09:04:16 -0600
Miguel,

The issue is not what God can do, but what He HAS done.  I am contending
that free will as often is advocated was not God's intent.  He said in His
Word that we are DEAD in sins and trespasses.  He also said that no one
can come to the Son unless the Father who is in Heaven draws Him (John 6).
 I do not know if God is able or unable to grant Universal Free Will as is
often advocated, the question is whether he did it or not.

Derick

> SO God in his Sovereignty can not give man a free-will?
>
> Miguel
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: Bill burns <burnswh@...>
>
> Greetings Derick,
>
> God's Sovereignty isnt being attacked.  It's thru God that Man has
> freewill.  God made us this way.  We all know God is sovereign.  So,
> what's your point?  ps:  there are things God cannot do by the way.  But,
> even when He cant do something it's because He limited himself.  He did
> it. Still sovereignty isnt an issue.  It's by Him and through Him that all
> things are as they are regarding the Trinity.
>
> Bill Burns
>
>
>
> "Steven G. Rockhill" <revrock@...> wrote:
> Derick,
>  Even from the sick bed you are sharp - contending for the truth.  Praise
> God we are not God - just imagine how big a mess we would make.
>
> peace,
> sTeve
>
> Derick R. Dickens wrote:
>
> Jeff,    Your logic here is undefensible.  You stated, "God has a free
> will, then  why shouldn't we?"  Well, for one reason, we are not god.
> There cannot be  two Soveriegns of the Universe, because by definition two
> Sovereigns  cannot co-exist.  Yet, a Sovereign should not be taken down
> because He is  Sovereign nor rejected because of that one form of
> doctrine.  The issue is  not man's free will but God's Sovereignty, to
> which I believe is being  attacked.  At least the Bible does attribute to
> God Sovereignty, but never  Universal Free Will to man.    Derick
> Amen, Bro. Bill, we are not robots, but created beings after the image of
> God.    Does God have a free will? Then why shouldn't we????    Jeff    On
> 6/13/06, Bill burns <burnswh@...> wrote:
> I think God does value "free will" more than His children.  Why, He  wants
>  us to come to Him freely and to strive to be more Christ-like freely.  If
> He  wanted us to do otherwise He would have made robots.  God doesnt want
> robots!!      *Jeff Hallmark <bctexan@...>* wrote:    At least
> "free-will" is in the Bible.    Jeff    On 6/13/06, Kevin Sigafoos
> <ksigafoos@...> wrote:
> Hi Steve,    DJ is poking fun at the biblical doctrine of predestination.
> He's  mocking the doctrine by implying that God foreordained the Presby's
> fall down the stairs and that there was nothing the minister could do  to
> avert the accident.    I
>  rebutted by mocking the Arminian's false notion of free will.  Since  God
> doesn't actual ordain our steps, or so it is claimed, the  Wesleyan's
> accident was purely his own doing and God stood idly by  while the man
> fell.    Myself, I'd rather that my loving heavenly Father ordained all
> of my  trials, along with His promise to walk with me through them,
> rather  than the notion that he values "free-will" more than His
> children.  But I guess I'm silly that way.    On 6/13/06, Steven G.
> Rockhill < revrock@...> wrote:
> I don't get it - what am I missing.    Peace,  Steve    D. Jackson wrote:
>       The subject of Calvinism vs. Arminianism reminds me of a story I
> heard
> once:
>   Two
>  preachers were having breakfast together.  One was a Wesleyan
> (Arminianist) and the other a Presbyterian (Calvinist).  They got
> into
> a
> lively discussion over breakfast on this very issue with neither one
> of them
> budging an inch.  As they left the dining area of the restaurant
> they
> were
> eating at, the Presbyterian tripped and fell down a flight of
> stairs.  The
> Wesleyan rushed to the bottom of the staircase and helped him up.
>
> He
> asked
> the Presbyterian if he was okay and the man responded: "Yeah, I
> think
> so.
> Just a few bumps and bruises."  Relieved, the Wesleyan minister
> said:
> "Man!
> I bet you're glad you got that one over with!"        DJ  --
> To unsubscribe, send ANY message to:
> pastorsforum-unsubscribe@associate.
> com    "In essential
> things, unity; in non-essential things, liberty; and in a
> ll things,
> charity."
>
> --
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>    Pastor
> Steven G. Rockhill
> Lisbon Reformed Presbyterian Church  PO Box 88  Lisbon, NY
> 13658
> 315-393-9041  revrock@...
> http://lisbonrpc.port5.com  http://firmfooting.blogspot.com
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> --    To unsubscribe, send ANY message to:
> pastorsforum-unsubscribe@...
>   "In essential
> things, unity; in non-essential things, liberty; and in all things,
> charity."
>
> --      Grace and peace,  Kevin Sigafoos  ---------------------  For from
> him and through him and to him are all things. To him be  glory forever.
> Amen. (Rom 11:36)    --  To unsubscribe, send ANY message
>  to:  pastorsforum-unsubscribe@...    "In essential things,
> unity; in non-essential things, liberty; and in  all things, charity."
>
> --  To unsubscribe, send ANY message to:
> pastorsforum-unsubscribe@...    "In essential things, unity; in
> non-essential things, liberty; and in all  things, charity."
>   --  To unsubscribe, send ANY message to:
> pastorsforum-unsubscribe@...    "In essential things, unity;
> in non-essential things, liberty; and in all things, charity."
>
>
> --
>  ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>  Pastor Steven G. Rockhill  Lisbon Reformed Presbyterian Church  PO Box
> 88  Lisbon, NY  13658  315-393-9041  revrock@...
> http://lisbonrpc.port5.com  http://firmfooting.blogspot.com
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
>
> --  To unsubscribe, send ANY message to:
> pastorsforum-unsubscribe@...    "In essential things, unity; in
> non-essential things, liberty; and in all things, charity."
> --
> To unsubscribe, send ANY message to:
> pastorsforum-unsubscribe@...
>
> "In essential things, unity; in non-essential things, liberty; and in all
> things, charity."
>