Miguel, I thank you for all the posts you have made on this issue where it seems you have posted from others. Let me be honest with you, I have read most of those people and I have, as well, read primary source material on Calvin and his beliefs, on Spurgeon, and others. Thus, some of the "Calvin really didn't believe _________, really doesn't affect me. The question is what does the Bible say. To that end, I do challenge you Miguel to come with me through a book or two for discussion. You want to post what others are saying anyway, so this could be a prime time for us to delve into the issues letting these men speak for themselves. I have tried to show you our verses and answer your own, because I do not believe that they contradict... otherwise I would only just give my verses and ignore yours. Derick