Gentlemen,

Let's go with a real life example.

I know of a real situation where a  pastor of a fairly large church in  one
of the organizagions repesented by this forum, gave up his church ($48,000+
per year), renounced his license as a minister of the gospel, became a
police officer and is now one of the "boys in town".  He takes God's name in
vain, he left his wife for another man's wife(whom he did not marry) and
took on the lifestyle of the world.  He had been a pastor for about 15
years, but now he lives the life of a drug dealer, because of his new
profession.

According to many of the posts in this forum, this man is saved.  Can this
possibly be, when this man made up his own mind and changed his own
lifestyle of his own accord?

God did not let him down because God's grace is sufficient, but will God
hold us prisoner?  Are we not  free to make up our own mind?  We are not
robots that have no say so in our own lifestyle.

God will not save us until we surrender to him.  Likewise will he keep us
saved against our will?

Dr Mike


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Caldwell Street Baptist Church" <caldwellstreet@...>
To: <pastorsforum@...>
Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2003 4:04 PM
Subject: RE: [PastorsForum] Unconditional Salvation


> Bro. What sin would be enough to cause a person to lose what Jesus said
> is secure in His hands? (Short Story) My oldest daughter at the age of
> 12 or 13 became very rebellious and I am sure there was times she would
> have said to anyone, I hate dad, my dad trts to control me, whatever...
> She Might have even denied me as her dad, but I never, regardless how
> far she would have went, never denied her. Why? Because she is my
> daughter. She came from me, she is mine. Never would God disown His
> children. They may even rebell so badly that they would run as fast they
> can away from Him, but He will never deny His own. Delmar McCollum
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brian [mailto:brian@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2003 1:01 PM
> To: pastorsforum@...
> Subject: RE: [PastorsForum] Unconditional Salvation
>
>
> Hi guys!
>
> A couple things in this regard:
>
> 1.  I don't think anyone doubts the security of the believer.  The
> question is whether or not someone can become an unbeliever, as I see
> it.
>
> 2.  It would seem to me that the issue of eternal security is NOT an
> issue for those who walk with Christ.  It is really only an issue for
> those who choose a licentious lifestyle over discipleship.
>
> 3.  If someone claims to be a Christian, yet lives a sinful lifestyle,
> people on both sides of the issue would question that person's salvation
> - the one side would say that person may have been saved and may have
> lost it; the other side would say that the person was probably never
> saved to begin with.  So in both cases, the concern would be for that
> person's soul, amen?
>
> 4.  Okay, that was three things instead of a couple.  Sue me!!
>
> Your friendly Wesleyan moderator who is secure in his salvation,
>
> Brian
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mike Cantrell [mailto:mcantrell@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2003 10:38 AM
> To: pastorsforum@...
> Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] Unconditional Salvation
>
> Bro. Terry here are just a few scriptures that attest to the Security of
> the Believer.  There are hundreds more, but for the sake of space I
> offer these
>
> Mike Cantrell
>
>
>
> John 10:27  My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
> John 10:28  And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never
> perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. John 10:29  My
> Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to
> pluck them out of my Father's hand. John 10:30  I and my Father are one.
>
>
> Rom 8:1  There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in
> Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. (After
> the flesh and after the spirit are not in the best Manuscripts)
>
>
> Rom 8:35  Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall
> tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or
> peril, or sword? Rom 8:36  As it is written, For thy sake we are killed
> all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. Rom 8:37
> Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that
> loved us. Rom 8:38  For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life,
> nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor
> things to come, Rom 8:39  Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature,
> shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ
> Jesus our Lord. ( The argument is made that man can choose to separate
> himself from the love and salvation of God, however, the word creature
> here in these verse of scripture includes man.)
>
>
>
>
> John 6:37  All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that
> cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. John 6:38  For I came down from
> heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. John
> 6:39  And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all
> which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up
> again at the last day. John 6:40  And this is the will of him that sent
> me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have
> everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
>
>
> Eph 1:13  In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of
> truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye
> believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Eph 1:14
> Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the
> purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Terry Walker" <twalker@...>
> To: <pastorsforum@...>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2003 9:31 AM
> Subject: [PastorsForum] Unconditional Salvation
>
>
> > Greetings Bros in Christ,
> >
> > I am interested in other pastors teaching on unconditional salvation.
> What
> > I am looking for is not just opinions but scripture to support your
> > statements.  I have been invited to a round table tonight to discuss
> this
> > subject.  There will be pastors from several denominations.  What do I
> mean
> > by unconditional salvation, the term is sometimes referred to as "once
>
> > saved, always saved."  Thank you in advance and God Bless,
> >
> > Rev. Bro. T.
> >
> >
> > --
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> >
> > "In essential things, unity; in non-essential things, liberty; and in
> all
> things, charity."
> >
>
>
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>
>
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>
>
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