pastor h, hey, i found another goup that thinks just like this - they are called islam :) pax jok --- Pastor Hughes <embc@...> wrote: > this is by a pastors wife.....in reference to > biblical dress.....take a deep breath...then read.. > > > . No doubt your pastor has preached about the > biblical principles for proper, modest dressing and > if you are saved, you quite naturally agree with > him. I John 5:3 "For this is the love of God, that > we keep His cornmandments: and his commandments are > not grievous." Psalm 119:165 "Great peace have they > which love thy law and nothing shall offend them." > We understand that, while we do live in this world, > God wants His people to stand out and be different > and not to use our own standard to determine our > dress, but to use God's standard. For example, once > we are saved, it doesn't take us long to understand > that God considers it an abomination for a woman to > dress like a man. (Deuteronomy 22:5) Early in our > Christian lives then, we put away our pants and all > of our excuses for wearing them (i.e. it's cold, I'm > going horseback riding, I just wear them around the > house, etc.) After all, who wants to dress like an > abomination in God's sight? So, we replaced our > Levi's with dresses, skirts, and culottes. We also > understand that in order to be modest in God's eyes, > our dresses, skirts, and culottes need to fall below > our knees--for any part exposed above the knee is > considered nakedness in the eyes of God. (Isaiah > 47:2,3 "...make bare the leg, uncover the thigh, > ...Thy nakedness shall be uncovered, yea, thy shame > shall be seen:" Webster's dictionary defines the > thigh as being the portion of the leg between the > hip and the knee. Another verse that defines > nakedness as an exposed thigh is Exodus 28:42.) > I'm sure it is of utmost importance to those of you > who are reading this article to know that your dress > is well-pleasing to the Lord. So just to be > absolutely sure we are obedient in all areas of > dress, let us review and examine our philosophy of > dress to make sure we can align ourselves with the > Word of God. > > I have observed among independent Baptist women a > certain naivete of sorts when it comes to wearing > dresses-- An unspoken philosophy which seems to say, > "As long as I'm wearing a dress, I must be > scriptural." Yet, there are many types and styles of > dresses that are every bit as immodest and revealing > as a pair of tight Levi's would be! I purposely > chose the title of this article from Proverbs 31 > because of the word covering. A covering means to > clothe or enwrap. The virtuous woman covered > herself. (And from the text we see that she covered > herself beautifully: tapestry, silk, and purple!) We > see how in the Bible God designed clothes three > times and all three times He designed coverings. In > the Garden of Eden God made coats for Adam and Eve > to wear. A coat is not a sleek, tight, > body-revealing sort of apparel, is it? It does not > accentuate any part of the body nor draw attention > to any one place. When you wear a coat, you are > simply covered. The next time the Lord designed > clothes was for the high priest's attire. They wore > long robes with linen britches underneath the robe. > A robe is not an "attention grabbing" article of > clothing, is it? I mean, if you and your husband > were going out of town on a romantic little getaway, > what would his response be if you cuddled up next to > him and whispered, "Honey, I want you to know that > I'll be bringing my floor-length, long-sleeved, > fuzzy, pink robe on this trip!" (Well, in the first > place, he may have already fainted because you > actually cuddled up to him... but that's another > article!) If you were really trying to get his > attention, I think you could leave the robe home. A > robe, like a coat, was not designed to bring > attention to anything on the body, but rather it is > used for a covering. Also in the book of Revelation, > we read of God's design for our heavenly attire: > white robes. Every time the Lord God designed > clothes, it was for the purpose of clothing the body > in a decent and modest way. > > Here I have composed several questions for you to > ask yourself concerning the way you dress: > > 1. Are you attracted to the world's latest styles > and do you try to dress accordingly? > 2. Do you dress to show off, or draw attention to, > certain part of your figure? (i.e.. small waist, > long legs, etc.) > 3. Do you usually wear form-fitting clothes? > 4. Are your culottes nothing more than "long shorts" > or "short pants"? > 5. Do your skirts come exactly to your knee and do > those skirts have slits in them? > 6. Do you get as close to the world's way of > dressing as you can possibly get away with? > 7. On the other hand, do you purposely dress dowdy > and frumpy to appear more "holy" than those around > you? (i.e.. Amish style-- plain, head coverings like > you just popped out of a thrift shop window.) > 8. Do you wear things that may be "see through" and > excuse it with the fact that you're wearing a slip > (so if anyone sees anything, they'll "just see my > slip.") > > > ** A note to mothers of daughters ** > > 1. Do you allow your daughter to wear form-fitting, > figure-flattering clothes just because she may look > "cute" or have a "good figure"? > 2. Are you mindful to teach your daughter how to > dress modestly, and do you check her wardrobe > regularly to be sure she is doing so? (This is your > responsibility, Mom.) > 3. Do you allow your daughter to indulge in worldly > attire simply because she is young and it is "in > style"? > > If you answered "yes" to any of these questions, > then you have set up your own dress standards and > you need to question your own motives for doing so. > > Now I want to mention a word that is not often used > in discussing our wardrobes, and that is the word > balance. I personally believe that we as modern day > Christian women must have Holy Spirit leadership in > our lives, and must exercise good discretion and > balance in choosing what we will wear. This is not > to say that we need to find a happy medium between > the world's standards and God's standards. Nothing > could be farther from the truth. However, we are > three years away from the 21st century. We do not > use horse and buggies to come to church, nor do I do > my laundry down at the Sayville beach. My girls and > I do not wear bonnets and prairie dresses like "Ma" > on "Little House" and my husband does not dress like > Moses or Joshua did. Why? Because those things no > longer pertain to our culture. So where does balance > apply? God never says that it is a sin for the leg > below the knee to show. So I can wear skirts and > dresses below my knees and yet they do not have to > be to the ground. I do not want to be poured into > them in such a way that I can no longer breathe once > the skirt is on, and I would still like to be able > to move and sit down in what I wear! So I will avoid > tight, form-fitting, worldly clothes, but I will > choose clothes that look sharp, fit well, and cover > me. There's nothing wrong with looking clean and > pretty and sharp! We should stand out as pleasingly > different, not ostentatious or weird. > > Here are some basic rules that we need to measure > our dress standards by: > > 1. Never try to "Christianize" the world's dress and > make it your own. (Some ladies who live in jean > skirts, for example, wear them every bit as tight as > they used to wear their jeans! The idea behind > wearing dresses and skirts was to make certain parts > of your body literally INVISIBLE!) > > 2. Open, low necklines, sleeveless tops and dresses, > short and slit skirts and dresses, tight, slinky, > form-fitting attire and pants or shorts, have no > place in a Christian woman's wardrobe. (You might > say, "Sleeveless?! Oh, come on!" Ever notice what > advertisers say about "bare" shoulders? Words like > sexy, soft, and alluring are always right there.) > > 3. Culottes were invented in order to give a lady > the freedom to move around-- i.e.. gardening, > cleaning, bike riding, etc.-- and yet still look > like she has a skirt on. If you want to wear > culottes, make sure they look like a skirtfront and > back. > > > ** A Word to Brides-to-be ** > > I am utterly amazed and shocked when I attend > Christian weddings because of some of the bride's > gowns I have seen. Here we have this wonderful, > sweet, little Christian girl, who has dressed > modestly and properly as long as she's been in the > church. What happens on her wedding day? To quote a > familiar passage- "June is bustin' put all over!" > Please keep your standards as high as ever on this > wonderful day! There have been brides I've been > embarrassed to look in the eye because of her > immodest apparel. > > In all areas of our lives, we should try to live > godly. Let us especially be circumspect in our > attire. The virtuous woman has the utmost respect > for God and His Word. So the virtuous woman covers > herself. And her husband praises her. by Liz > Graff > > Pastor Hughes > East Mesa Baptist Church > http://www.azboss.net/~embc/ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: DAVID POWELL > To: pastorsforum@... > Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2004 8:16 PM > Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] why your church.... > > > Fidel, do you wear a black suit and tie in the > winter and a white suit and tie in the summer? Why > not? That is what all the God fearing Baptist > pastors did back in the early 1900's. Dress is > cultural. As long as it is not dirty or provocative > or suggestive the Bible does not say how to dress. > Our congregation is a casual laid back church and no > one, and I mean no one, wears a suit and tie. When > it is 120 degrees in the summer most of us wear > walking shorts to Wednesday services! > I have preached in many, many other countries and > each one has its own cultural dress. In Suid > Afrika, they dress different than they did in > England, than they did in Russia, than they did in > Mexico.... etc. etc. > > God is not in the clothes fashion business. The > only thing you can say about clothes and church, > other than not being vulgar in their dress, is > culturally determined. In New England, they wear > suits and ties in Alvord, Texas they wear jeans, > boots and Stetson hats. In Mississippi they wear > suits and ties in the winter and shirts and ties in > the summer. In Mission Viejo, California they wear > shorts in the summer and shorts in the winter. At > least for those churches close to the beach > > We have a very strict dress code in our church. > We only have one rule! You must wear clothes! > > God Bless > Pastor Powell > > Shalom Alechem...Barukh Hashem Y'shua! > (Peace and Blessings in Jesus' name!) > ----- Original Message ----- > From: FIdel Hughes > To: pastorsforum@... > Sent: Friday, January 30, 2004 8:35 PM > Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] why your church.... > > > Brian > > you hit on something big here..... > > you said there is scriptural guidelines for > dress and talk...... > and people will stand out.... > > yes .....either positively or negatively..... > > the next biggie you hit on was when you said > human nature is self centered > not God centered...... > > that is why people want to dress and talk the > way they want to > and not the way God wants them to.... > > because they are self centered..... > > not God centered..... > > thanks for bringing that up > > very interesting ....... > see > there is good stuff in these posts..... > you > just have to read them > carefully > > thanks again > pastor h. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Aberdeen Wesleyan Church > To: pastorsforum@... > Sent: Friday, January 30, 2004 4:55 PM > Subject: RE: [PastorsForum] why your > church.... > > > David, > > I think I understand your point, but > then we need to ask: who sets the standard? > Civilized according to whom? The educational > system? > > I think that if anyone from the > Elizabethan age, or even among church circles in the > early 1900's came to many of our churches today > (even the traditional ones), they would be appalled > at the use of language today, and would see it as > being "dumbed down." > > Our British brothers, I'm sure must lose > sleep at how we have butchered the English language. > > I think I see your point, and I must > admit my own struggle with this. How "far" do we > go? > > But I am convinced of something that I > absolutely cannot shake: Jesus made Himself relevant > to mankind. He didn't have to do that. He could > have stayed in glory, never coming to earth, in > which case we would not have been redeemed, and we > would pay the just penalty of our sins. > > He "dressed down" for us - there is no > way we could look upon His glory if He had not. He > did not wear clerical garb, or even the Israelite > version of a suit, and there is not indication that > He required His followers to do the same. In fact, > He got after the Pharisees for making their tassles > long, and the phylacteries big, because they were > showing off with their dress. > > He spoke the common language of the > people, not a heavenly language. He could have > chosen to speak whatever language Adam and Eve > spoke, and expected everyone else to "get it," > because it would have been pure (at least before the > fall). > > What made Him different? Aside from the > fact that He was the Son of God, what set Him apart > was His total devotion to the mission God had given > Him. His love for the Father was total. In the > society in which He lived, as well as ours, anyone > who lives a life totally committed to the mission of > the Father will stand out, no matter how they dress > or talk (aside from clear Scriptural guidelines), > because human nature continues to be self-centered, > rather than God-centered. > > Brian > > -------Original Message------- > > From: pastorsforum@... > Date: 01/30/04 17:42:14 > To: pastorsforum@... > Subject: RE: [PastorsForum] why your > church.... > > Let's bring them up to a civilized level > and not be "dumbed" down to theirs. > There is a proper way to speak. Let's > teach, train, lift up and not stoop. > David W > > -----Original Message----- > From: john okeefe > [mailto:jxpxus@...] > Sent: Friday, January 30, 2004 3:46 PM > To: pastorsforum@... > Subject: RE: [PastorsForum] why your > church.... > > > david - > > if i looked at you and said "dude, bogus > wake - spank > down 'n powder." you might not know > what i mean :) > > but if i said to you - "david, i believe > you came to > the wrong conclusion and i was hoping > you would be > more reasonable about it" - that you > would understand > - but they mean the same things :) > > words are 100$ cultural. here are just > a few examples > (and i am certian others can think of > more): > > bloody > dog > chick > wag > slide > spank > > most of these words you would have no > problem using in > a your daily speaking - if you said, > "that guy was all > bloody" it would have a whole different > meaning > depending on who you were talking too :) > > what you see as a "cuss" word may not be > so in my > community - the word "sucks" is a great > example of > that - it is not "as bad" as your > community things, in > my community - since the article wqs > designed for > people in my community - no problem. > but i will say, > i actually had a very conserative church > in texas use > the article (they did ask if they could > change the > word) for there state wide conference. > > i think, when it comes to words, we need > to speak to > the people we are trying to reach - it > is undertanding > them and meeting them where they are and > not where you > want them to be :) > > pax > jok > > > > > > ____________________________________________________ > IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - > Click Here > ===== john o'keefe http://www.ginkworld.net __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? 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