Derick,

Old Testament "Salvation" is not the same as being "saved" under the new 
covenant.  They had "salvation" is a different sense that we have today. 
They had forgiveness but it was based on the blood of animals and not the 
blood of Christ.  This forgiveness foreshadowed that which was to come.

It was a different covenant with different promises.

Even those who followed Christ during His earthly ministry of 3 1/2 years 
were not "born again."  Christ gave the teaching to ol' Nick, but it is not 
something he experienced until after the resurrection.

We hear a lot of talk about people looking forward to Christ like we look 
back to Christ's death at Calvary ... but this is a very loose, general idea 
that is mostly speculation on our part..  They had the promise of a Messiah 
who would come, but did not have a clear understanding of Who he would be 
and what He would do.

Old Testament people did not have the experience of regeneration because it 
was not part of their covenant.  They did not have the gospel.  They did not 
have the fullness of the revelation of God's grace.  They only had types and 
shadows.

Jerry



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Derick R Dickens" <Derick@...>
To: <pastorsforum@...>
Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2006 10:32 AM
Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] Children's Church


> Jerry,
>
> Are you saying that the Old Testament believers were not saved???
>
> Derick
>
>>
>> Derick--They were regenerate.  They were God's "chosen people" and they
>> were
>> saved by the belief of the coming Messiah being the propitiation of our
>> sins.
>>
>> Jerry -  You must be defining regeneration in a different way than I
>> understand it.  I take it to mean that a person is made alive in his
>> spirit
>> through the new birth.
>>
>> Regeneration is a New Testament concept.  A person is dead in trespass 
>> and
>> sins, spiritually dead, until he comes to a saving faith in Christ Jesus.
>> No one can be saved in the New Testament sense of being born again 
>> without
>> hearing the gospel of Christ  and receiving Him as Lord and Savior.  That
>> was not done under the Ole Testament system.
>>
>> Jewish people are "chosen" (elected?) but they still have to be born 
>> again
>> in order to be saved.
>>
>> What does the Hebrew word for worship mean?
>>
>> What is it about worship that you believe could not be done in the Old
>> Testament?
>>
>> Jerry
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Derick R Dickens" <Derick@...>
>> To: <pastorsforum@...>
>> Sent: Friday, November 03, 2006 3:52 PM
>> Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] Children's Church
>>
>>
>>>
>>>> Jerry -
>>>> Oh, ... Jewish people cannot worship????  What about all of those
>>>> people
>>>> in
>>>> the OT?????
>>>
>>> Derick--They were regenerate.  They were God's "chosen people" and they
>>> were saved by the belief of the coming Messiah being the propitiation of
>>> our sins.
>>>>
>>>> And what about Cornelius????  ....
>>>> Acts 10:1-4
>>>> 10:1 There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion
>>>> of
>>>> the band called the Italian band,
>>>> 2 A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave
>>>> much
>>>> alms to the people, and prayed to God alway.
>>>> 3 He saw in a vision evidently about the ninth hour of the day an angel
>>>> of
>>>> God coming in to him, and saying unto him, Cornelius.
>>>> 4 And when he looked on him, he was afraid, and said, What is it, Lord?
>>>> And
>>>> he said unto him, Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial
>>>> before God.
>>>
>>> <Derick> Are you saying that Cornelius offered worship to God as
>>> demanded
>>> by God?  I think the entire reasons for sending Peter was that he could
>>> not offer sufficient worship.  Yes, can men worship?  Of course!  Can
>>> they
>>> worship the true and living God without knowing Him as their God... No!
>>>>
>>>> Acts 10:21-22
>>>> 21 Then Peter went down to the men which were sent unto him from
>>>> Cornelius;
>>>> and said, Behold, I am he whom ye seek: what is the cause wherefore ye
>>>> are
>>>> come?
>>>> 22 And they said, Cornelius the centurion, a just man, and one that
>>>> feareth
>>>> God, and of good report among all the nation of the Jews, was warned
>>>> from
>>>> God by an holy angel to send for thee into his house, and to hear words
>>>> of
>>>> thee.
>>>>
>>>> Cornelius and his family were not saved and regenerated until they
>>>> heard
>>>> the
>>>> Gospel. It is through the foolishness of preaching
>>>
>>> <Derick> I agree it is through the foolishness of preaching but I will
>>> also say that we cannot worship God in the manner He desires unless we
>>> first repent and believe.
>>>
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