The point continues to be missed. Whether on purpose or not, I cannot tell. The issue of divorce and/or remarriage is being diverted from the original issue. The question is not whether God forgives the sinner as well as the sin of divorce, but does divorce disqualify a man from being a pastor. It is not about believers in general for which the only qualification is faith, repentance, belief on the Lord Jesus Christ. It is meeting the standard set forth in 1 Tim. 3 and Titus and revolved around the "husband of one wife" or as another put it, "a one woman man." Again, the issue is not whether God can use a divorced man or woman, the question remains, does a divorced man meet the biblical qualification set forth in the Scriptures concerning a pastor (or deacon for that matter.) Those who want to throw out the "husband of one wife" often not only allow for divorced men to be pastors but also women (divorced or not) to be pastors. If we follow the Bible, the matter is clear to me. Let's not change the subject and then announce an answer to a question that wasn't even asked. David W -----Original Message----- From: J [mailto:jelewis@...] Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 8:26 PM To: pastorsforum@... Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] backsliding jok, Why do church people not understand that divorce is NOT listed in the Bible as the "Unpardonable Sin????" Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is the ONLY unforgivable sin, not divorce, or even divorce and remarriage. God FORGIVES !!!! GLORY!!!! God CLEANSES !!!! Hallelujah!!!! If God forgives the sinner of his sin (divorce, adultery, marrying a divorced person, etc), WHO ARE WE TO HOLD IT AGAINST THEM???? If God can use a sinner (of any type of sinful life è gossip, abuse of body through overeating or lack of rest, lying, stealing, immorality, drug abuse, murder, etc.) who has been saved and forgiven, He Can Use a Forgiven Divorced Man or Woman. All of us have sinned in various ways and all of us, I hope, have been forgiven of our sins. Of course, there must be a time where the candidate (forgiven person) proves himself by demonstrating that he or she is living a "redeemed life" and has truly changed from the sinful way of living, and is NOW living in and Walking in Victory. Paul, who had abused the church and murdered innocent Christians, had to prove he was real in his faith before others in the church would receive his ministry. His ministry was not discounted because he had committed grievous sin. He was not a "second class Christian" because of his shady past life. Neither should we discount the Grace of God in the lives of people who have been forgiven and who demonstrate by holy living that they are changed by the power of the living Christ. Thank God for His abundant Grace and Mercy in Christ!!!! Jerry Lewis Southside Baptist PS: There are innocent parties to divorce. They should not be treated badly because of the wrongdoing of their spouse. PSS: May God have mercy on those hard - hearted "Pharisees" who condemn and offend "God's little ones." There are many "lost sheep" who are strewn by the wayside, cast away by unloving church people who could not reach out to them in their time of hurt. May the church Grow Up and love like Christ loved!!! ----- Original Message ----- From: "john okeefe" <jxpxus@...> To: <pastorsforum@...> Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 12:37 AM Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] backsliding > jerry - > > you are a very insightful man - very cool :) i would > say i agreed with you - but then you might be put on a > "bad list" of some kind :) LOL - > > one of the things we are looking for is a honest and > transparent relationship with people who are our > leaders :) i have been getting a hard time from > people who think i should not be a pastor because i am > divorced - and to be honest, i am very comforatble > with the decision i made concering that part of my > life and i have no problem being a pastor - and God > has no problem also - because i bring with me what God > is looking for in people he is calling to minister to > this generation - honest, transparent, open leaders > who are not perfect, but who are forgiven :) > > pax > jok > > > --- J <jelewis@...> wrote: > > David W, > > > > > > > > I know the estimate seems high, but 95% of church > > members fit either one or more of the points listed. > > > > > > > > The SBC (of which I am a part) claims 16 Million > > members, however, on any given Sunday, only a little > > over a third will be in attendance at Sunday morning > > worship. Where are the other two thirds???? Why > > are there always many members that are never in > > attendance? > > > > > > > > What percentage of your church members can you say > > are dedicated, loyal, faithful, and committed to the > > program of God???? What percentage of your church > > members are consistently witnessing and winning > > souls to Christ? What percentage are faithful > > tithers? How many diligently seek the Lord before > > making decisions? How many never compromise in > > their moral standards? (Even many Christians > > justify cutting corners with tax returns, driving > > speed limits, etc.) How many are moved more by > > their feelings than they are by the Word of God? > > How many have a real heart hunger and passion for > > the things of God? > > > > > > > > Bottom line . We are desperately in need of REVIVAL > > in the church today!!! > > > > > > > > I like Charles G Finney's definition of revival > > .."Revival is a new beginning of obedience toward > > God." > > > > > > > > Loving Christ the Captain of our Salvation!!! > > > > Jerry Lewis > > > > Southside Baptist > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Pastor David Warner > > To: pastorsforum@... > > Sent: Monday, February 02, 2004 8:06 PM > > Subject: RE: [PastorsForum] backsliding > > > > > > AMEN. We all need to get right and be right with > > God. I think maybe the 95% is a little high, but > > only a little! > > David W > > -----Original Message----- > > From: J [mailto:jelewis@...] > > Sent: Monday, February 02, 2004 4:50 PM > > To: pastorsforum@... > > Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] backsliding > > > > > > Pastor Hughes, > > According to your criteria, 95% of all > > evangelical, Bible - believing, Baptist church > > members (both Independent Baptist and SBC) are > > backslidden. > > The church is spiritually sick and needs > > REVIVAL!!! > > Jerry Lewis > > Southside Baptist > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Pastor Hughes > > To: pastorsforum@... > > Sent: Monday, February 02, 2004 12:10 AM > > Subject: [PastorsForum] backsliding > > > > > > anybody backslidden out there...... > > > > here we go....hang on.... > > Pastor Hughes > > East Mesa Baptist Church > > http://www.azboss.net/~embc/ > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Pastor Hughes > > To: embc@... > > Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2003 3:10 PM > > Subject: backsliding > > > > > > The Ways of a Backslider Pro. 14:14 with II > > Pet. 2:6-8 > > The life of Lot offers many "ways" of a > > backslider. You're probably backslidden if: > > > > > > 1. You walk by sight, rather than faith - > > Gen. 13:10 > > 2. You make decisions without praying - Gen. > > 13:11 > > 3. You are comfortable around worldly and > > wicked people - Gen. 13:12; 19:1 > > 4. You are a continual burden to God's > > people - Gen. 14:11-16 (Lot was always a burden to > > Abraham.) > > 5. You seek to honor men rather than God - > > Gen. 19:1 > > 6. You have experienced a compromise in > > moral standards - Gen. 19:8 > > 7. Your testimony is not taken seriously - > > Gen. 19:14 > > 8. You are not trying to win souls - Gen. > > 19:15; 18:32 (Lot had won no one outside of his > > family.) > > 9. You linger about obeying God's word - > > Gen. 19:15-16 > > 10. You deny God's word - Gen. 19:18-20 > > > > Pastor Hughes > > East Mesa Baptist Church > > http://www.azboss.net/~embc/ > > > ===== > john o'keefe > http://www.ginkworld.net > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! > http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/ > > -- > To unsubscribe, send ANY message to: pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... > > "In essential things, unity; in non-essential things, liberty; and in all things, charity." > > -- To unsubscribe, send ANY message to: pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... "In essential things, unity; in non-essential things, liberty; and in all things, charity."