Jerry L, are you still saying there were no pelvic thrusts in the dirty dancing done on the Saddleback video? DW > Hey Dean, > > I appreciate your opinion, but of course, I see the entire issue > differently. > > Her response to a letter asking about dancing was, "Dancing is the > vertical expression of a horizontal idea." > > There is no doubt that some modern dancing is vulgar ... but all dancing > is NOT. A movie like "Dirty Dancing" portrays some vulgar dancing. Your > quote may be appropriate for some of the dancing shown in that movie, > but you cannot accurately generalize and apply it to all dancing, ... > nor to the Saddleback youth video. > > The Saddleback video is not in any way vulgar or suggestive. There is > no "dirty dancing" in it at all. As I expressed in another post, one > can view the real thing, vulgar dancing, pelvic thrusts, etc, on BET, > and easily tell the difference between what these kids did and that > which is unclean. > > Titus 1:15 > 15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and > unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is > defiled. KJV > > Titus 1:15 > 15 To the pure, all things are pure, but to those who are corrupted and > do not believe, nothing is pure. In fact, both their minds and > consciences are corrupted. NIV > > Titus 1:15-16 > 15 A person who is pure of heart sees goodness and purity in everything; > but a person whose own heart is evil and untrusting finds evil in > everything, for his dirty mind and rebellious heart color all he sees > and hears. TLB > > It is unfortunate that some people see evil behind every bush. Like the > residents of Pleasantville they live a drab, colorless, cold, and > lifeless existence. > > If viewing this Saddleback youth video provoked unclean thoughts in any > man, it is not a doctor he needs to see, ... he needs to make an > appointment with the cross and allow the Lord Jesus Christ to cleanse > his heart and mind. The Bible tells us that the blood of Jesus Christ, > God's Son, cleanses us from all sin and unrighteousness (1 John 1:7). > > Jerry > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Dean West > To: pastorsforum@... > Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2006 8:09 AM > Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] Saddleback worship?? > > > Jerry, > Couldn't help but remember a statement by Ann Landers when I read your > comment following: "If you go around preaching that dancing is "sexual > foreplay," you will sound like the residents of Pleasantville." > > > Her response to a letter asking about dancing was, "Dancing is the > vertical expression of a horizontal idea." > > > > I tried to view the video with an objective mind. Its just my > opinion and I don't expect you to agree. Any male that can view the > video, not see anything suggestive, nor have any thoughts of a > suggestive nature probably needs to make an appointment with his > doctor. > > > > Dean > > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Jerry <jlew@...> > To: pastorsforum@... > Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2006 6:22:41 PM > Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] Saddleback worship?? > > > No ... I told you previously, ... I do not accept shame from you, ... > and you have no business trying to dish it out as a man of God. > > Be real, David ..... you will make a greater impact for the Gospel. > > Leave the pet phrases that reek of religiousity alone. They do not > help you win people to Christ. > > If you go around preaching that dancing is "sexual foreplay," you will > sound like the residents of Pleasantville. > > Jerry > ----- Original Message ----- > From: David Warner > To: pastorsforum@... > Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2006 3:07 PM > Subject: RE: [PastorsForum] Saddleback worship?? > > > Thank you Jerry. And merry Christmas to you too. > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > From: Jerry [mailto:jlew@...] > Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2006 3:03 PM > To: pastorsforum@... > Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] Saddleback worship?? > > > > Exactly. That usually follows the foreplay of dancing. > > > > Attitudes and asinine statements like this make a mockery of the > Christians who spout off such silliness. > > > > Shame on you for such an undiscerning remark. > > Jerry > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: David Warner > > To: pastorsforum@... > > Sent: Friday, December 22, 2006 1:12 PM > > Subject: RE: [PastorsForum] Saddleback worship?? > > > > Secondly, the people were doing a bit more than dancing. They > "rose up to play". > > "The verb translated 'to play' suggests illicit and immoral sexual > activity which normally accompanied fertility rights found among > the Canaanites who worshipped the god Baal." > > > > Exactly. That usually follows the foreplay of dancing. > > > > DW > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > From: J & M [mailto:jim.melissa@...] > Sent: Friday, December 22, 2006 10:50 AM > To: pastorsforum@... > Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] Saddleback worship?? > > > > D.W., > > > > If I may make a few exegetical corrections.... > > > > The people DID have the command not to worship idols. Exodus 20 > records it and they had already agreed to follow the law.Ex 24:3-3 > And Moses came and told the people all the words of the LORD, and > all the judgments: and all the people answered with one voice, and > said, All the words which the LORD hath said will we do. > > 4 And Moses wrote all the words of the LORD, and rose up early in > the morning, and builded an altar under the hill, and twelve > pillars, according to the twelve tribes of Israel . > > > > After this, Moses goes back up on the mountain for 40 days to get > the stone tablets and commune with God: Ex 24:12 And the LORD > said unto Moses, Come up to me into the mount, and be there: and I > will give thee tables of stone, and a law, and commandments which > I have written; that thou mayest teach them. > > Secondly, the people were doing a bit more than dancing. They > "rose up to play". > > "The verb translated 'to play' suggests illicit and immoral sexual > activity which normally accompanied fertility rights found among > the Canaanites who worshipped the god Baal." > > > Jimbo > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: David Warner > > To: pastorsforum@... > > Sent: Friday, December 22, 2006 12:48 AM > > Subject: RE: [PastorsForum] Saddleback worship?? > > > > They were just dancing in worship there is Exodus. What¢s wrong > with that? The loud noise and the music and the dance steps > might not fit your idea of godly worship but how can you say > from pre-Exodus revelation that it was sinful. What law did > they violate. Remember, Moses had not brought the commandments > down from the Mt. yet. So what¢s the big deal. It was just > some body moves and kicking up a little sand. After all, but > calf was nothing but shaped gold material. Besides, I don¢t > see any hint of them doing pelvic thrusts mentioned at all. > Non-traditional? Maybe. But sinful? This was just a bunch of > people who perhaps even thought they were singing and dancing in > praise to the true God. > > If dancing is alright then it must be alright in all cases, > right? > > > > DW > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > From: Jerry [mailto:jlew@...] > Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2006 6:22 PM > To: pastorsforum@... > Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] Saddleback worship?? > > > > Hey DW !!!! > > > > You are looking at apples and calling them something entirely > different .... like prunes. > > > > Dancing around the calf was akin to idolatry ... The Bible very > clearly condemns idolatry in specific language.. > > > > You are criticizing a youth group who are singing praise to the > True and Living God. > > > > Non-traditional? YES. > > > > Sinful? NO. > > > > Jerry > > Matt 17:20 ... for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith ... > nothing shall be impossible unto you. > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: David Warner > > To: pastorsforum@... > > Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2006 8:22 PM > > Subject: RE: [PastorsForum] Saddleback worship?? > > > > I don¢t suppose there was anything sinful in the dancing > around the golden calf either. NOT! > > > > DW > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > From: Jerry [mailto:jlew@...] > Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2006 11:43 PM > To: pastorsforum@... > Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] Saddleback worship?? > > > > Jeff, > > > > I agree that sin and evil can wreck people's lives, ... yet > that is not what you see in the saddleback video. > > > > The song and steps of these youth may not fit your ideas of > proper behavior for Christian youth, but there is nothing > sinful about what they are doing. > > > > Calling the behavior on this video "sinful" will make a > laughingstock of the accuser. You will destroy all > credibility for the real issues of life. > > > > The Bible says that sin is transgression of the law. There is > no lawbreaking and no sinful behavior here. > > > > If you want to know what a pelvic thrust really looks like, > watch a Brittany Spears video. > > > > Jerry > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Jeff Hallmark > > To: pastorsforum@... > > Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2006 11:04 AM > > Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] Saddleback worship?? > > > > Unless > > All the water in the world > however hard it tried > Could never sink a sailing ship > unless in get inside. > > All the evil in the world > the wickedness and sin - > Can never sink your soul's fair craft > unless you let it in. > > unknown > > On 12/16/06, Jerry < jlew@...> wrote: > > I agree with Jimbo. > > > > It is not exactly my style .... but I see nothing sexual in > this. > > > > I question it being called a worship service ... it looks > like a performance of a youth group to me. > > > > What bothers me is that so many seek to put a bull's eye on > Saddleback and criticize everything that occurs there. > > > > Hey, ... if you don't like the way they do things there, ... > pray about it and leave them with God. Let God deal with > them. He has the ability to straighten them out if they > need it. > > > > Jerry > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: J & M > > To: pastorsforum@... > > Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 9:52 PM > > Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] Saddleback worship?? > > > > How much bodily movement is allowed in worship? > > May people move their hands? Feet? > > > > I didn't find this offensive. Lively and youth-oriented, > but not sexual or degrading. > > > > Like you said, we have diverse opinions here. > > > > Jimbo > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: G Schneck > > To: pastorsforum@... > > Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 7:37 PM > > Subject: [PastorsForum] Saddleback worship?? > > > > From Extreme theology web site: > > "This is a video of a Saddleback Worship Concert. There > are teenage girls doing dance moves that include Pelvic > Thrusts.Is this really worship to the one true God of > the Bible or is this worship to one of those pagan sex > gods? You be the judge?" > > > > - - - - > > My comments > > I know there is a diverse group here on pastorsforum... > > When I viewed this I grew sick to my stomach and my > heart broke..... > > greg > > > > - - - - > > The video: > > http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1122526581190505259 > > > > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-join@... To > unsubscribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.15.20/588 - > Release Date: 12/15/2006 10:02 AM > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-join@... To > unsubscribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... > > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-join@... To > unsubscribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... > > > > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-join@... 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