DW,
Where in the Bible does it command us to wear our "Sunday Best"???
That is culture ... not Christianity.
Jerry
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Warner" <dwarner@...>
To: <pastorsforum@...>
Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2006 4:29 PM
Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] Saddleback worship??
> Jerry L,
> Would you think completely nude would be okay for attending a church
> service since a man can look at a woman's face and lust?
>
> You seemed to take exception to Miguel's statement about meeting with the
> Savior. Do you take exception to "coming boldly before the throne of
> Grace" since we are always before God? Do you take exception to the idea
> of "where two or three are together, Jesus is in the midst", since Jesus
> is always with us? I don't completely understand your reasoning here.
> Could you please explain a little more?
>
> Since there are varied interpretations for "dressing modestly" Miguel gave
> his for his church. Do you think he should not do that?
>
> You are not criticizing another man's ministry, are you?
>
> DW
>
>
>
>> Miguel,
>>
>> There is a difference between "dead religion" and the Christian life.
>>
>> What verse in the New Testament tells people what clothes to wear when
>> they go to church???
>>
>> Are you going to tell a man that he cannot enter the auditorium unless
>> he buttons the top button of his shirt???
>>
>> A man can look at a woman's face and lust after her, so should Christian
>> women wear burkas to church???
>>
>> Is there a verse that states that shorts are not allowed???
>>
>> The last person who wore shorts in a service where I was preaching was a
>> 72 year old retired preacher. What Scripture passage do you think I
>> should have cited to rebuke him???
>>
>> In the New Testament, God never instructs preachers to tell people what
>> clothes to wear for doing anything. He does speak about Christians
>> dressing modestly. There are many varied interpretations on how one does
>> that.
>>
>> Your idea about "visiting the Savior" is a misconception. We do not
>> visit the Savior when we attend services at church.
>>
>> The Savior lives with us all of the time. He looks on the heart and not
>> the outward appearance.
>>
>> He never leaves the Christian. He is with you even when you take a bath
>> and when you are with your spouse during times of intimacy.
>>
>> Proper dress and adornment for church services is a cultural concept and
>> not a measure of spirituality or godliness.
>>
>> Jerry
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Miguel
>> To: pastorsforum@...
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2006 12:59 PM
>> Subject: [PastorsForum] Saddleback worship??
>>
>>
>> If we were to take these verses as you would want us to see them -
>> then we would always look for something good in adultery, fornication,
>> homosexuality, and every other sin that God hates.
>>
>>
>>
>> There needs to be both balance and especially context.
>>
>>
>>
>> SIN is sin no matter what you want to call it - and dancing with hip
>> grinding is sexual in nature - publicly it should never been allowed
>> to happen. If the gal is married and she and her husband decide to do
>> this in the privacy of their home - then we are not to judge.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sunday I had a mother get upset with me that she refused to even shake
>> my hand and say good bye after the service. She was upset over the
>> term modest dress. I stated it both in Sunday School and from the
>> pulpit that women should never show cleavage nor their thighs, men
>> should never unbutton their shirts to show off their hairy (or
>> hairless) chest, nor wear short pants to services. We are in church to
>> give reverence to God. They know how to dress appropriately if they
>> were to visit the President yet show a major disrespect to visit the
>> Saviour.
>>
>>
>>
>> Well, this lady has a daughter, daughter-n-law, and a granddaughter
>> that are guilty of this exposure. Of course she sees nothing wrong in
>> it - and of course her five divorces make her qualified to make such
>> discernment (not).
>>
>>
>>
>> But once again if we take the verses in Titus you would turn it around
>> - give her view as the correct view - and the pastor is wrong.
>>
>>
>>
>> I think not.
>>
>>
>>
>> Because of Calvary
>>
>>
>>
>> Miguel
>>
>>
>>
>> Preaching the Gospel Teaching the Word
>> Contending for the Faith
>> Looking to the Future . . . Because People
>> Matter
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Miguel Jurna
>> Pastor
>> First Baptist Church of Olivehurst
>> 1777 8th Ave., P.O. Box 578
>> Olivehurst, CA 95961
>>
>> fbco@...
>> tel:
>> mobile:
>> 530-742-8944
>> 530-701-5131
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Add me to your address book...
>> Want a signature like this?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> From: gregS [mailto:greg@...]
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2006 9:39 AM
>> To: pastorsforum@...
>> Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] Saddleback worship??
>>
>>
>>
>> You are avoiding my question...
>>
>> Jerry posted the Scripture below.
>>
>> I wondered what Jerry (and others who have used it) meant in using it?
>>
>> How does this verse relate to "telling the difference between ...
>> clean and unclean..?
>>
>> Because I see a problem... I am unclean? I am defiled? I am
>> unbelieving?
>>
>> I'm just trying to understand the point.
>>
>> gregS
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> The Saddleback video is not in any way vulgar or suggestive. There is
>> no "dirty dancing" in it at all. As I expressed in another post, one
>> can view the real thing, vulgar dancing, pelvic thrusts, etc, on BET,
>> and easily tell the difference between what these kids did and that
>> which is unclean.
>>
>> Titus 1:15
>>
>> 15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled
>> and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is
>> defiled.
>>
>> KJV
>>
>> Titus 1:15
>>
>> 15 To the pure, all things are pure, but to those who are corrupted
>> and do not believe, nothing is pure. In fact, both their minds and
>> consciences are corrupted.
>>
>> NIV
>>
>>
>>
>> Titus 1:15-16
>>
>> 15 A person who is pure of heart sees goodness and purity in
>> everything; but a person whose own heart is evil and untrusting finds
>> evil in everything, for his dirty mind and rebellious heart color all
>> he sees and hears.
>>
>> TLB
>>
>> It is unfortunate that some people see evil behind every bush. Like
>> the residents of Pleasantville they live a drab, colorless, cold, and
>> lifeless existence.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Dec 26, 2006, at 12:23 PM, Dpowellaz2@... wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> In a message dated 12/26/2006 10:20:06 A.M. US Mountain Standard Tim,
>> greg@... writes:
>>
>> I'm not asking about what you or I think...
>>
>> I'm asking about why the referenced verse is used...
>>
>> gregS
>>
>> Same here, Greg. Let me ask a question. What kind of dancing is ok and
>> what kind of dancing would have been acceptable in the Youth service?
>>
>> Doc
>>
>> Shalom Alechem...Barukh Hashem Y'shua!
>> (Peace and Blessings in Jesus' name!)
>> Pastor David Powell
>>
>>
>>
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