We are in agreement.  I think it would be great for Christians to return to 
the sufficiency of the Word as a basis for their decisions and their counsel 
to others.   I do not oppose medical treatment for physical problems that 
effect us emotionally or mentally.  However, I believe our contentment is 
found in Him, not in some imaginary notion of the inherent value we have. 
Our value is derived from Him, not distinct from Him.  His great purposes 
for us, Christ in us, and our abiding in Him are the basis of the fruit of 
the Spirit.  The objectives of counsel should be to help us align our lives 
with the revealed will of God.  As we are transformed by the renewing of our 
minds (conforming them to the mind of Christ), we will not be so obsessed 
with ourselves.  We will not be so concerned with trying to directly change 
our feelings.  We will pursue peace with all men and holiness without which 
no one will see God.  The navel gazing strategies of much modern therapy is 
self-defeating because it focuses on improving the condition of the flesh.



GARY WEBB




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Derick Dickens" <Derick@...>
To: <pastorsforum@...>
Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2007 6:52 AM
Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] the ABc's of RW


> Gary,
>
> I am not sure if you are agreeing or disagreeing with me.  We were saved
> unto Good Works that God has done that, all we do is walk in them.  As
> well, our purpose is ultimately to Glorify God and enjoy Him Forever.
> It is all rooted in God.  Without God, we are nothing.
>
> DrD
>
> Gary Webb wrote:
>> Our worth is found in our purpose.  We were created in the image and
>> likeness of God.  Although sin has blemished that likeness, we still
>> have varying degrees of likeness to Him, even our fallen condition.
>> In addition, those who are elect can rejoice that God will fulfill a
>> glorious purpose for their lives.  We were created unto good works
>> that God has before ordained for us to walk in (Eph 2:10).  That means
>> we can accomplish some great things for the sake of His kingdom.
>>
>>
>> GARY WEBB
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Derick Dickens"
>> <Derick@...>
>> To: <pastorsforum@...>
>> Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2007 9:31 PM
>> Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] the ABc's of RW
>>
>>
>>> Psychology and Biblical Theology:
>>>
>>> I am not a fan of psychology.  Yes, I now Dr. Dobson and others who
>>> support it but to be honest, the premise of modern psychology is
>>> antithetical to Biblical Counseling.  I do support Nouthetic Counseling
>>> which believe that our major problem is that we are sinners.  Granted,
>>> there are legitimate physical issues that need addressing from a medical
>>> standpoint, but besides those issues, psychology assumes that there are
>>> other barriers that are in our way and that that Bible is helpful but
>>> not sufficient in meeting the problems we have today.
>>>
>>> Nouthetic believes the reason we have problems is because we are
>>> sinners.  In this counseling, we take a stand clearly that there are not
>>> only right and wrong, but the only way to improve is to have the Word of
>>> God bear on the life of people.  Dr. Powlison has a decent article on
>>> the difference here:
>>>
>>> http://sites.silaspartners.com/partner/Article_Display_Page/0,,PTID314526|CHID598014|CIID1941418,00.html
>>>
>>>
>>> As for self esteem, the problem is not necessarily says but what is
>>> meant by what is said and more importantly what is left out.  Self
>>> esteem believes that we are worthy and worth individuals who deserve to
>>> have self worth.  They believe that we find our true esteem and worth by
>>> looking inside of us.  Yes, we are to love ourselves and we are worth
>>> something... but the question is not asked "Why?"  I reject self esteem
>>> because of the "why" which, in my opinion, perverts the love and self
>>> worth as a result.
>>>
>>> Why am I worth anything?  First, I do not have worth in and of myself.
>>> God said in His Word I am a sinner who deserves hell.  My righteousness
>>> is as filthy rags.
>>>
>>> Secondly, I am worth something because of God alone.  I am made in
>>> "God's image", again, it is God who is the focus of my worth not me.
>>>
>>> Thirdly, I am worth something because I was bought with a price, by
>>> God.  My worth is focused entirely upon the work of Christ alone.
>>>
>>> Thus, to tell us how good we are based upon some "good inside of us" and
>>> that we love ourselves other reasons is ludicrous.  My worth is not what
>>> I should study.  The worthiness of God should be the focus of our
>>> attention.  Only when we truly love God and see God as the only one
>>> worthy, will we see that the talents we have belong to God and that our
>>> worth is not in ourself but in God.
>>>
>>> Now, I am not saying that we refrain from encouraging people when they
>>> do a good job (which is positive).  But we should also remember that our
>>> worth and esteem rests in who God is and not who we are.  If we truly
>>> believe God is all powerful and can accomplish all His Holy Will then it
>>> does not matter how talented we are, we can rest assure that God can
>>> accomplish anything with such as I.  Who needs to think of themself as
>>> being good and able... when we think of God as good and able.
>>>
>>> Thus, do I love myself.  Yes, but that is not because I am worthy or
>>> worth loving.  I love myself because of who God is.  I am made in God's
>>> image and I was bought by God.  I am merely a filthy wretched worm.  And
>>> so are you... and I love you too, not because of how good you are but
>>> how great God is.
>>>
>>> DrD
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
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>
>


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