There is a lot of me in every sermon I preach. But I am not a prophet. My
message has benefited from the illuminating work of the Spirit as He has
taught me, but I do not bring an "inspired" message. I believe that
inspiration refers to the guiding and superintending work of the Spirit by
which He moves men to speak or to record His thoughts in words of His
chosing. He chose and shaped the lives, experiences, and vocabularies of
these chosen men and then further worked to restrain them from imposing
their own false notions into the text of Scripture. I would not place the
best of my own sermons in such an exalted position. They are my frail and
faulty attempts to communicate my best understanding of God's Word to those
who hear. The ultimate source is God's Word. That is the authority toward
which I point my listeners, hoping that none of my shortcomings will confuse
or misdirect them.
GARY WEBB
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerry" <jlew@...>
To: <pastorsforum@...>
Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 11:04 AM
Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] The Morning I Heard the Voice of God
> Steve,
>
> Steve > Can you give a biblical example of this latter claim?
>
> If you will consider the letters of Peter and Paul in the NT you can
> readily see that, even though both are written under the inspiration of
> the Holy Spirit, they each are a reflection of the personality, style and
> mannerisms of the writer.
>
> It is the same with your preaching. When you pray and seek the Holy
> Spirit's inspiration on your sermon, He uses YOU, ..... your thoughts and
> words to form what He wants to say through you. There is a little bit of
> you in every sermon God gives you to preach.
>
> Jerry
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steven G Rockhill" <revrock@...>
> To: <pastorsforum@...>
> Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 11:40 AM
> Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] The Morning I Heard the Voice of God
>
>
>>
>>
>> Jerry wrote:
>>> Gary,
>>> If prophecy was 100 % Holy Spirit, there would be no Biblical
>>> injunction against "despising" it.
>>> The Scripture enjoins Christians to "Despise not prophesyings." and to
>>> "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good" simply because the
>>> operation of prophecy is a joint-effort between the Holy Spirit and a
>>> human being who is endeavoring to be used of God. There is always the
>>> potential for the human entity to mix some of "himself" into the
>>> prophecy.
>> Can you give a biblical example of this latter claim?
>>
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> God has chosen to work through imperfect people. Sometimes there is a
>>> greater percentage of the "human" and sometimes there is a greater
>>> percentage of the Holy Spirit, when God works through people.
>>> We must always judge prophecy for its faithfulness to the whole of
>>> Scripture, the blessing of the Holy Spirit, and its fruit.
>>> It is the same with the "inspired utterance"that we call "preaching."
>>> Sometimes, preachers and churches go weird with preaching, too.
>>> With some preaching, we detect a very high degree of "anointing" or
>>> inspiration, and with some there is great wonderment as to its source
>>> and inspiration .... There have been a good many sermons that I have
>>> heard and thought something like, "Man, ... he sure didn't do much
>>> praying or study with that one, ...... he must have spent the previous
>>> evening watching the ball game."
>>> Also, if the preacher gets a few words confused and they come out
>>> differently than he intended, we graciously overlook his mistakes, and
>>> do not condemn him for transposing his words or thoughts. One preacher
>>> was quoting Eph 6 rapidly in his message. Suddenly, all of the
>>> congregation were laughing with great energy. The preacher had
>>> transposed the first letters of the words "fiery" and "darts" ... and
>>> they came out "...quench all the Diery Farts of the wicked." I am
>>> confident that all of us could relate some personal "bloopers" that
>>> occurred during our preaching.
>>> Most of the time, AS WE TAKE OUR FIRST AND INITIAL STEPS, .... our
>>> efforts at being used of God are feeble, ... and often exhibit a very
>>> low level of anointing, .... but as we grow in the Lord and in our
>>> understanding of the use and operation of spiritual gifts (whether
>>> preaching, prophecy, or other gifts), we should increase in our
>>> spiritual effectiveness and in our degree of blessing to the people we
>>> are serving.
>>> It is a serious issue if someone misuses spiritual gifts and seek to
>>> manipulate or control others, ... that sometimes happens. There are
>>> "control" issues among many churches and preachers. Many preachers
>>> think they are "God-appointed dictators" called to micro-manage all of
>>> the affairs of people in their church, and they will use anything that
>>> they think impresses people. I have seen evidence of this in
>>> fundamentalist, Charismatic, Pentecostal, Methodist, and Baptist
>>> churches. I have no doubt that it also occurs in others as well.
>>> A real "pastor" is a "servant." He serves God by serving people in His
>>> name. He will not DOMINATE those he serves. He has a heart for people.
>>> .... but when people seek to serve God and make honest mistakes in
>>> their attempts to operate in spiritual gifts, ..... they are undeserving
>>> of condemnation. A Godly man offering a gentle hand of correction and
>>> instruction is all that is needed.
>>> We must not throw the baby out with the dirty bath water .....
>>> Jerry
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> *From:* Gary Webb <mailto:mgwebb@...>
>>> *To:* pastorsforum@... <mailto:pastorsforum@...>
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, March 29, 2007 10:05 PM
>>> *Subject:* Re: [PastorsForum] The Morning I Heard the Voice of God
>>>
>>> Oh, I'm aware of that. When I hear something that is good, such
>>> as when these guys quote some Scripture, I do hold to that. When
>>> they try to inflate egos with their visions of the fantastic
>>> things God is going to do through folks who are wicked, I have a
>>> little problem there. When they announce that someone will become
>>> pastor of a particular church, but they are living in an
>>> adulterous relationship at that very moment, I have a problem.
>>> Especially, I have a problem when these things don't come to
>>> pass. I must confess that I have no strong desire (coveting) to
>>> prophesy. I would probably be more excited about it though if I
>>> saw some positive fruit instead of churches that go weird over it.
>>> GARY WEBB
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> *From:* Jerry <mailto:jlew@...>
>>> *To:* pastorsforum@...
>>> <mailto:pastorsforum@...>
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, March 29, 2007 3:21 PM
>>> *Subject:* Re: [PastorsForum] The Morning I Heard the Voice of
>>> God
>>>
>>> I do not have time today to get into this thread with you ,
>>> but remember the commands of Scripture:
>>> 1 Thess 5:20-21
>>> 20 Despise not prophesyings.
>>> 21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
>>> 1 Cor 14:39
>>> 39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to
>>> speak with tongues.
>>> Jerry
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> *From:* Gary Webb <mailto:mgwebb@...>
>>> *To:* pastorsforum@...
>>> <mailto:pastorsforum@...>
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, March 29, 2007 1:45 PM
>>> *Subject:* Re: [PastorsForum] The Morning I Heard the
>>> Voice of God
>>>
>>> Modern prophecy would not be equivalent to the Scriptures
>>> in many respects. For one, it would not apply to everyone
>>> in every place as does Scripture. It is limited in its
>>> scope to the particular, local situations and
>>> individuals. Secondly, it would not be an extension of
>>> doctrine beyond that which has already been revealed. I
>>> think these things are important.
>>> Since the days of John Wimber, we've been encouraged to
>>> experiment with the gifts and to expect them to mature. When
>>> it comes to prophecy (which Paul seems to elevate
>>> above every other gift), we must really be careful not to
>>> speak out something as if it were from God when we are
>>> still babes. Romans 12:6 instructs those gifted in
>>> prophecy to prophesy in "proportion to their faith." In
>>> many cases, it would be more honest and more humble to say
>>> something like, "I believe that the Lord is leading us
>>> to..." or "I believe the Lord wants to show us..." You
>>> had better be very sure you've understood the Spirit's
>>> leading before you speak it to others. The judgment will
>>> be severe for those who have impersonated a prophet. I have
>>> always had more problems with those who proclaim
>>> themselves as prophets than anyone else, regardless of
>>> their gifting. I tremble every time I hear one of these
>>> folks with their "Thus saith the Lord..." Why? Because
>>> every nut on the block can be there. I've heard some
>>> really outlandish messages paraded as a prophetic word,
>>> when in fact it wasn't even the truth. GARY WEBB
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Kevin Sigafoos" <ksigafoos@...
>>> <mailto:ksigafoos@...>>
>>> To: <pastorsforum@...
>>> <mailto:pastorsforum@...>>
>>> Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 12:12 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] The Morning I Heard the Voice
>>> of God
>>>
>>> Hi Jeff,
>>>
>>> I think that Piper was setting the reader up for the
>>> conclusion: if
>>> you are more endeared to the gifts of prophecy and tongues
>>> than to the
>>> living, inerrant Word of God than something is seriously
>>> out of whack
>>> (note: Piper is NOT a strict cessationist).
>>>
>>> This is the main reason why I am a cessationist. I don't
>>> see how
>>> belief in prophecy and tongues can have any other effect
>>> then lowering
>>> the value and sufficiency of Scripture. I don't see any
>>> biblical
>>> evidence for "fallable prophecy" such as is argued by
>>> Reformed
>>> continuationists such as Piper and Grudem (and I admire
>>> both of these
>>> men very much).
>>>
>>> Speaking of Piper: he spoke at SBTS chapel this week
>>> (sniff: I had to
>>> work and couldn't be there.) You can download his message
>>> here:
>>>
>>> http://www.sbts.edu/resources/Audio_Resources/Chapel_Messages/Spring_2007.aspx
>>>
>>> On 3/29/07, Jeff Hallmark <bctexan@...
>>> <mailto:bctexan@...>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > I know this is not favourable, but the cut and paste
>>> here, sounds like an
>>> > out of body experience I dealt with a few years ago with
>>> a new ager. Jeff
>>> >
>>> > The words came again. Just as clear as before, but
>>> increasingly specific: "I
>>> > turned the sea into dry land; they passed through the
>>> river on foot. There
>>> > they rejoiced in me—who rules by my might forever."
>>> Suddenly I realized God
>>> > was taking me back several thousand years to the time
>>> when he dried up the
>>> > Red Sea and the Jordan River. I was being transported by
>>> his word back into
>>> > history to those great deeds. This is what he meant by
>>> "come and see." He
>>> > was transporting me back by his words to those two
>>> glorious deeds before the
>>> > children of men. These were the "awesome deeds" he
>>> referred to. God himself
>>> > was narrating the mighty works of God. He was doing it
>>> for me. He was doing
>>> > it with words that were resounding in my own mind.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On 3/29/07, Kevin Sigafoos <ksigafoos@...
>>> <mailto:ksigafoos@...>> wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > > Dr. Piper has written an excellent response to the
>>> Christianity Today
>>> > > article "My Conversation with God" that was discussed
>>> here a little
>>> > > while back (the article, if you recall, was about an
>>> anonymous
>>> > > professor at a "well-known Christian University" who
>>> heard God tell
>>> > > him to give the royalties of a new book to a student).
>>> > >
>>> > > I urge everyone here to read Piper's article and then
>>> read 1 Peter
>>> > > 1:16-20 (paying close attention to verse 19).
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> >
>>>
>>> http://www.desiringgod.org/ResourceLibrary/TasteAndSee/ByDate/2007/2021_The_Morning_I_Heard_the_Voice_of_God/
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > --
>>> > >
>>> > > Grace and peace,
>>> > > Kevin Sigafoos
>>> > > ---------------------
>>> > > For from him and through him and to him are all
>>> things. To him be
>>> > > glory forever. Amen. (Rom 11:36)
>>> > >
>>> > > To subscribe, send a message to:
>>> pastorsforum-join@...
>>> <mailto:pastorsforum-join@...>
>>> > >
>>> > > To unsubscribe, send a message to:
>>> > pastorsforum-unsubscribe@...
>>> <mailto:pastorsforum-unsubscribe@...>
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > Bro. Jeff Hallmark
>>> > www.sprucelandbaptist.com
>>> <http://www.sprucelandbaptist.com>
>>> > http://baptist-potluck.blogspot.com/
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Grace and peace,
>>> Kevin Sigafoos
>>> ---------------------
>>> For from him and through him and to him are all things. To
>>> him be
>>> glory forever. Amen. (Rom 11:36)
>>>
>>> To subscribe, send a message to:
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>>>
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>>
>> --
>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>> Pastor Steven G. Rockhill
>> Lisbon Reformed Presbyterian Church
>> PO Box 88
>> Lisbon, NY 13658
>> 315-393-9041
>> revrock@... http://lisbonrpc.port5.com
>> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
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