steve - very cool - i love hearing stories of how God works in the lives of his people - that rocks :) pax jok --- "Steven G. Rockhill" <revrock@...> wrote: > John, > I was born and raised in southern NJ. It used to > be a rural suburb > of Philly (about 35 mins. from downtown), but now > all the orchards are > gone and have been replaced with housing > developments and shopping > centers. The pastor I mentioned certainly had > vision. A farmer gave > him a few acres of cornfield to build his church and > school and wouldn't > ya know a few years later that church and school are > smack dab in the > middle of a housing development. Wow. > > Steve > > john okeefe wrote: > > > steve - > > > > well, a presby and nj - humm, what part of new > jersey > > are you from? i went to drew (a united methodist > > school) in madison - i turned down that other > scholl > > in the area - oh, i forget it's name, starts with > a > > "p" i think - "preson," "prezzleson" - i'm sorry, > the > > name just won't come to mind :) > > > > i pastored for a while in washignton (warren > county) > > and newton (sussex county) - just wondering bro > > > > pax > > jok > > > > > > --- "Steven G. Rockhill" <revrock@...> > wrote: > > > >>I'd like to add one other question: > >> > >>What if you were IFB (Independent Fundamental(ist) > >>Baptist for Brother > >>Gilder) at one time but are no longer? Is there > any > >>hope for you since > >>you spurned the 'mother church' so to speak? > >> > >>On a personal note: after my father came to know > the > >>Lord (by reading > >>the OT of all things - like Timothy 2 Tim. 3:15) > he > >>pulled us out of the > >> other 'mother church' (Roman Catholic) and the > >>first church we went to > >>was an IFB that was just getting started. Wow > what > >>a culture shock that > >>was - we went from a half-hour long mass service > to > >>an hour long > >>hell-fire and brimstone preaching > >>services....yikes!! I was a young > >>teenager at the time. I confess to my baptist > >>brethren here that my > >>siblings and I thought it was all a joke and we > used > >>to peek to see if > >>anyone around us was 'going down the aisle'. We > did > >>get serious though > >>about the 'bring a friend Sunday' competition > (which > >>our family won > >>btw). I wasn't even ashamed to bring my friends > >>from school - and many > >>heard the gospel, so that was good. I did not > come > >>to Christ under the > >>ministry there, but I certainly learned a lot > about > >>Christ that I hadn't > >>learned growing up catholic. I did have a lot of > >>respect for the pastor > >>- he said that God gave him a vision to go to NJ > and > >>build a church and > >>school and that is exactly what he did. His wife > >>made the grossest pizza > >>though. We were a part of the church for about > two > >>years before we > >>reformed our beliefs and became presbyterians. > >>Which is where I am > >>today. Perhaps being presbyterian is God's > >>punishment upon me for > >>'peeking' during those altar calls. :-0) > >> > >>Peace in Christ, > >>Steve > >> > >> > >>Brian La Croix wrote: > >> > >> > >>>Okay Guys! > >>> > >>>I have a number of questions for our IFB > brothers, > >> > >>and I ask these in > >> > >>>all seriousness. > >>> > >>>There seems to be an implication, whether > >> > >>intentional or not, that > >> > >>>unless you are in line with the doctrines of the > >> > >>IFB, then your > >> > >>>salvation is in question. Or at least you will > >> > >>only "make it" by the > >> > >>>skin of your teeth, because the grace of God is > >> > >>able to cover those of > >> > >>>us who are less than perfect in our doctrine. > >>> > >>>It is stated a number of ways, generally > >> > >>like..."Baptist doctrine is > >> > >>>Bible doctrine..." the implication being that if > >> > >>you are not a baptist, > >> > >>>then you are less then biblical. And it seems > >> > >>that even Southern > >> > >>>Baptists are less than Biblical, according to > this > >> > >>definition > >> > >>> > >>>Is this what you actually believe? Does one have > >> > >>to be in agreement > >> > >>>with IFB doctrine to be a Christian? > >>> > >>>I want an answer to this, point-blank, with no > >> > >>dancing around it. And > >> > >>>if you believe this, I think it is fair to ask > for > >> > >>direct explanations > >> > >>>as to why that is, and then to tell us just what > >> > >>someone does need to > >> > >>>believe to be saved. > >>> > >>>I admit this comes from a bit of frustration on > my > >> > >>part. I am not a > >> > >>>Baptist, but have many Baptist brothers, and my > >> > >>daughter is best friends > >> > >>>with the daughter of an IFB pastor. Yes, we > >> > >>disagree on some issues, > >> > >>>but as far as I know he still thinks I'm saved! > >>> > >>>My point in this is that I can't believe that > >> > >>there is any perfect > >> > >>>theological system. We are fallible men, who are > >> > >>trying to figure out > >> > >>>the infallible word of God, and we will fall > >> > >>short. It just might be > >> > >>>possible that the Baptists are right on some > >> > >>issues, and that even us > >> > >>>poor Wesleyans might be right on some things > >> > >>(gasp!). > >> > >>> > >>>Yet I get the very distinct impression that our > >> > >>IFB brothers do not > >> > >>>agree that they can be wrong. There is little > >> > >>humility expressed in > >> > >>>responses to posts, indicating that there seems > to > >> > >>be no room for the > >> > >>>possibility of any error. > >>> > >>>So in summary, here is what I want to know: > >>> > >>>1. Does one need to be an IFB in order to be > >> > >>saved? > >> > >>> > >>>2. If so, why? > >>> > >>>3. Is there any chance that you might be wrong > in > >> > >>some of your > >> > >>>theological conclusions? > >>> > >>>4. If not, why not? Does God speak only to the > >> > >>IFB? > >> > >>> > >>>5. Where does this leave the rest of us outside > >> > >>the IFB camp? > >> > >>> > >>>6. What specifically does someone need to > believe > >> > >>to be saved? > >> > >>> > >>>7. Can one be used of God outside the IFB? > >>> > >>>8. If not, then what about Billy Graham and John > >> > >>Wesley? Is it an > >> > >>>issue of "God did not use them BECAUSE of, but > >> > >>rather IN SPITE of? > >> > >>> > >>>Please understand this is not an attack or a > slam. > >> > >> This has been on my > >> > >>>mind since starting this forum back in September. > > >> > >>But this concern has > >> > >>>grown steadily. > >>> > >>>I certainly believe that you are my brothers, but > >> > >>I seriously wonder if > >> > >>>you think I am one of yours? And not just me, > but > >> > >>even our Southern > >> > >>>Baptist brothers? > >>> > >>>Anything you can do to answer my concerns would > be > >> > >>appreciated! > >> > >>> > >>>Thanks! > >>> > >>>Brian > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >>____________________________________________________ > >> > > > <http://www.incredimail.com/redir.asp?ad_id=309&lang=9> > > > >> IncrediMail - > >> > >>>Email has finally evolved - Click Here > >>> > >> > > > <http://www.incredimail.com/redir.asp?ad_id=309&lang=9> > > > >>-- > >> > > > > > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > > >>Pastor Steven G. Rockhill > >>Lisbon Reformed Presbyterian Church > >>PO Box 88 > >>Lisbon, NY 13658 > >>315-393-9041 > >>revrock@... > >> > > > > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > > >> > >> > >> > >>-- > >>To unsubscribe, send ANY message to: > >>pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... > >> > >>"In essential things, unity; in non-essential > >>things, liberty; and in all things, charity." > >> > > > > > > > > ===== > > john o'keefe > > http://www.ginkworld.net > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing > online. > > http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html > > > > -- > > To unsubscribe, send ANY message to: > pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... > > > > "In essential things, unity; in non-essential > things, liberty; and in all things, charity." > > > > > > -- > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > Pastor Steven G. Rockhill > Lisbon Reformed Presbyterian Church > PO Box 88 > Lisbon, NY 13658 > 315-393-9041 > revrock@... > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > > > -- > To unsubscribe, send ANY message to: > pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... > > "In essential things, unity; in non-essential > things, liberty; and in all things, charity." > ===== john o'keefe http://www.ginkworld.net __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html