Jerry, You are jumping all over the place. We are taking the whole Bible into consideration when we quote from the Bible which says "There is no one who does good, not even one" (Ps 14:3 and quoted by Paul in Rom. 3). Now before moving on - do you think the clear teaching of this verse excludes anyone (with the exception of Christ who was born of the Father holy and pure and the righteous who are in Christ Jesus) when it says "no one ... not even one"? Where is Doc - he will tell you - this is what the Scripture actually says. As to Zacharias and Elizabeth they were "righteous" before God - because they were true believers in the covenant promises of the Messiah. Their righteousness is not of themselves - but is of God. So you are falsely pitting one Scripture against another to try and show a contradiction that is not there. Peace, Steve Jerry Lewis wrote: > "...none good but God..." has to be understood in the light of the > whole Bible. > > Luke 1:6 says, ""And they were both righteous before God, walking in > all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless." > > So, anyhow, ... whose sin is referenced in Psalm 51:5???? > > And, ... is it morally right to punish John for the offense of Richard? > > Jerry > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Gary Webb <mailto:mgwebb@...> > *To:* pastorsforum@... <mailto:pastorsforum@...> > *Sent:* Thursday, August 23, 2007 4:43 PM > *Subject:* Re: [PastorsForum] Re: Steve's verses, part 1 - Genesis > 2:17 > > Off track again. There are none good but God. > > > GARY WEBB > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Jerry Lewis <mailto:jlew0@...> > *To:* pastorsforum@... > <mailto:pastorsforum@...> > *Sent:* Thursday, August 23, 2007 1:50 PM > *Subject:* Re: [PastorsForum] Re: Steve's verses, part 1 - > Genesis 2:17 > > Hey Jeff, > > I do not think any of the verses you cited contradict what I > stated. > > BTW, ... whose sin in Ps 51:5? > > If you have two children, and one of them tells a lie, do you > punish the good kid for lying? > > Jerry > > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Jeff Hallmark <mailto:bctexan@...> > *To:* pastorsforum@... > <mailto:pastorsforum@...> > *Sent:* Thursday, August 23, 2007 2:36 PM > *Subject:* Re: [PastorsForum] Re: Steve's verses, part 1 - > Genesis 2:17 > > Bro. Jerry, I just love it when I can disagree with both > you guys. > > There are some things in which I agree w/ you. > > There are some things in which I agree w/ Keven > > But I am alway glad I can agree w/ the Word of God. > > Psa 58:3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go > astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies. > > Psa 51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did > my mother conceive me. > > Isa 48:8 Yea, thou heardest not; yea, thou knewest not; > yea, from that time that thine ear was not opened: for I > knew that thou wouldest deal very treacherously, and wast > called a transgressor from the womb. > > On 8/23/07, *Jerry Lewis* < jlew0@... > <mailto:jlew0@...>> wrote: > > Kevin, > > I have not had the time to follow the discussion > closely, but from what I read, Doc seemed to me to be > in agreement that all people are born spiritually > dead, that is, with their nature being separated from > God. It was a minor point of disagreement regarding > the guilt of Adam's sin where his perspective was > different. > > How do you move from all people being born spiritually > dead to every person being guilty of Adam's specific > sin? Rom 5:12 says "death passed upon all men," not > the guilt of Adam's sin. Because of Adam's "offence," > "death (spiritual death) reigned, and all men came > under the judgment of condemnation. > > A newly born baby is not guilty of any sin. That > child, though, is spiritually dead, separated from God. > > Jerry > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Kevin Sigafoos <mailto:ksigafoos@...> > *To:* pastorsforum@... > <mailto:pastorsforum@...> > *Sent:* Thursday, August 23, 2007 9:38 AM > *Subject:* Re: [PastorsForum] Re: Steve's verses, > part 1 - Genesis 2:17 > > > > On 8/23/07, *Jerry Lewis* <jlew0@... > <mailto:jlew0@...>> wrote: > > > Seriously, I do not think there is any > question among us that men are born > spiritually dead. > > > I believe that Doc was questioning that in the > thread which precipitated this discussion. I have > read others on this forum imply that man is not > born spiritually dead, just sick. > > > But that is different than saying that all men > are guilty of Adam's sin. > > > I have tried to prove that they are the same. I > did so from the text of Genesis 2 & 3, Romans 5, > and 1 Corinthians 15. Where do you find fault in > my exegesis? > > Why is man is born spiritually dead if he is not > guilty of something? If he is guilty of something > from before he is born, then what could it be if > not Adam's sin? > > BTW, "2mp" is short-hand for "second masculine > plural." I'm sorry if I was overly technical. > > > > -- > > Grace and peace, > Kevin Sigafoos > --------------------- > For from him and through him and to him are all > things. To him be glory forever. Amen. (Rom 11:36) > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-join@... <mailto:pastorsforum-join@...> > > To unsubs > cribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... <mailto:pastorsforum-unsubscribe@...> > > > > > > > -- > Bro. Jeff Hallmark > www.sprucelandbaptist.com <http://www.sprucelandbaptist.com> > http://baptist-potluck.blogspot.com/ > <http://baptist-potluck.blogspot.com/> > > > = > To subscribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-join@... > > To unsubs= > cribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... > > > > > > = > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.2/966 - Release > Date: 8/22/2007 9:05 AM > > > To subscribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-join@... > > To unsubs > cribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... > > > > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-join@... > > To unsubs > cribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... > > > > -- ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Pastor Steven G. Rockhill Lisbon Reformed Presbyterian Church PO Box 88 Lisbon, NY 13658 315-393-9041 revrock@... http://lisbonrpc.port5.com +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++