That's right Jerry, the "good" are post the grace of God. But before that, in their rebellious sinful states - the Word of God stands, "There are none who do good, no not one". Peace, Steve Jerry wrote: > >>>> Even Christ said that there is none good but God. > > And when the Bible speaks of various men as being "good" we understand > that it is because of God's wonderful grace and power working within > them. > > Jerry > > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Gary Webb <mailto:mgwebb@...> > *To:* pastorsforum@... <mailto:pastorsforum@...> > *Sent:* Friday, August 24, 2007 5:11 PM > *Subject:* Re: [PastorsForum] Re: Steve's verses, part 1 - Genesis > 2:17 > > Even Christ said that there is none good but God. > > GARY WEBB > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Steven G. Rockhill <mailto:revrock@...> > *To:* pastorsforum@... > <mailto:pastorsforum@...> > *Sent:* Friday, August 24, 2007 1:37 PM > *Subject:* Re: [PastorsForum] Re: Steve's verses, part 1 - > Genesis 2:17 > > You're right Jerry they are all excluded because they are all > believers > in the Gospel. No where do you find someone who is an > unbeliever/lost > person who is called "righteous". Why do you think we are called > "saints"? I thought I made this clarification the other day. > Rom. 3 > speaks of us in our natural sinful state (outside of Christ > and the > Gospel). It applies to everyone who was born of Adam except > for Christ > who was born of the Father. Come on Jerry - this is what the > entire > discussion has been about - spiritually dead with sinful > natures - they > aren't good, they aren't seeking after God, they do nothing > good! That > is what Paul is saying. Only when we come to faith in Christ > can we be > called "saints" and do that which is truly good and pleasing > in God's > sight. > > Romans 8:8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God. > > Pleasing God is doing what is good and right. We can't do > that outside > of Christ. > > Peace, > Steve > > > Jerry Lewis wrote: > > Well Steve, > > > > Are you righteous? Are you good? Do you seek after God? > > > > If the answer to any of these questions is yes, ..... then > you are > > excluded. > > > > If there is ANY qualification with your answer, .......then > you are > > excluded. > > > > If you are saved, God declares you righteous, therefore, > ..... saved > > people are excluded. > > > > Abraham was called righteous by God, ...... so he is excluded. > > > > Lot was called righteous by Peter under the inspiration of > the Holy > > Spirit, .... so he is excluded. > > > > Zack and Liz, in Luke 1:6, were called righteous by Luke > under the > > inspiration of the Holy Spirit, ...... so they too are > excluded. > > > > King David wrote that he sought after God, ... so he is > excluded. > > > > The seven men chosen for service in the beginning church in > Acts 6, > > of "honest report," were they "good" men???? I think so, ... > so they > > are excluded. > > > > Psalm 37:3 talks about the steps of a "good man," .... so > they existed > > in the Old Testament, ... and therefore, are excluded. > > > > Joseph, of Arimathaea (Luke 23:50), was a "good man," and, > therefore, > > .... is excluded > > > > Barnabas, in Acts 11:22-24 is called a "good man," (Acts > 11:24 For > > he was a good man, and full of the Holy Ghost and of faith: > and much > > people was added unto the Lord.), .... therefore, ... he is > excluded. > > > > So, brother, ..... can you see why I maintain that there are > Biblical > > exceptions to the general statement of Romans 3???? > > > > If I make a statement saying, "Men are strong," ..... that is a > > general statement. There are exceptions. Some men are not > strong, > > but are weak. Some men are sick. Some are on their death > bed. But it > > was a general statement meaning that the usual case is that > men are > > strong in relation to those who are not men. > > > > As a lost person, I had a desire for God. I wanted to be > right with > > God. Was I seeking God? Yes! I told some of my friends > that I wanted > > to find God and know God. Was that because God was working > in me? > > Yes. But the part of that verse that says there is none > that seeks > > God was not true about me. Even when I was still unsaved, > ..... I was > > excluded > > > > And the moment I got saved, I was made righteous in Christ > (2 Cor > > 5:21) and became excluded again. > > > > Jerry > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven G. Rockhill" > > <revrock@... <mailto:revrock@...>> > > To: <pastorsforum@... > <mailto:pastorsforum@...>> > > Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 12:13 PM > > Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] Re: Steve's verses, part 1 - > Genesis 2:17 > > > > > >> Jerry, > >> You are right about one thing the passage in Romans 3 > (quoting from > >> Ps. 14 and 53) is broad and general, it is so broad and > general that > >> no one is excluded! > >> > >> Peace, > >> Steve > >> > >> Jerry Lewis wrote: > >>> Steve, > >>> > >>> No, brother, I am not doing anything falsely. > >>> > >>> We must not distort or misapply a statement Christ made. > >>> > >>> Every statement in the Bible of a general nature cannot > always be > >>> applied to every specific situation or person. > >>> > >>> The passage in Romans saying there is none good, and none > that seeks > >>> after God, and none righteous, ... these are also general > >>> statements. There are other passages that do speak of > people being > >>> good and righteous and seeking God, in both the Old and > the New > >>> Testaments. > >>> > >>> I do not see these (Rom 3 statements) as Biblical > contradictions, > >>> but as broad general statements that must be considered in > the > >>> proper perspective because there are other verses that > indicate > >>> exceptions to those general statements. Abraham was called > >>> righteous. Lot was called righteous. They both did some > stupid > >>> things. Zack and Liz were called righteous. They kept the > >>> commandments and ordinances of God blameless. It is wrong > to claim > >>> that no one can keep the commandments of God. Luke 1:6 > plainly > >>> states that they kept them. > >>> > >>> Also, the issue is not that any of these passages speak of > their > >>> goodness, righteousness, etc, as being of or from > themselves. That > >>> is very obvious. No one is arguing against that that I am > aware of. > >>> Outside of God's grace and dealings with people, they have > no goodness. > >>> > >>> So, ... again, ... whose sin is referenced in Psalm 51:5???? > >>> > >>> And, yes, .... children have a propensity for falsehood (some > >>> preachers, too), but does that mean they are guilty of > Adam's sin? > >>> NO !!!! > >>> > >>> Are they born in the condition of spiritual death? YES! > >>> > >>> What does that mean? It means they are separated from God > and their > >>> nature is evil. They have a propensity for sin. > >>> > >>> Can spiritually dead people live moral lives? YES !!!! > There are > >>> many examples around us. > >>> > >>> Does that mean they are right with God? NO! They have to > receive > >>> Christ and obtain the salvation of God as a gift in order > to be good > >>> in the sense Christ was speaking of when He said there is > none good > >>> but God. > >>> > >>> Jerry > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >> Lisbon, NY 13658 > >> 315-393-9041 > >> revrock@... <mailto:revrock@...> > http://lisbonrpc.port5.com > >> > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > >> > >> > >> To subscribe, send a message to: > pastorsforum-join@... > <mailto:pastorsforum-join@...> > >> > >> To unsubscribe, send a message to: > >> pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... > <mailto:pastorsforum-unsubscribe@...> > >> > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > pastorsforum-join@... > <mailto:pastorsforum-join@...> > > > > To unsubscribe, send a message to: > pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... > <mailto:pastorsforum-unsubscribe@...> > > > > > > -- > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > Pastor Steven G. Rockhill > Lisbon Reformed Presbyterian Church > PO Box 88 > Lisbon, NY 13658 > 315-393-9041 > revrock@... <mailto:revrock@...> > http://lisbonrpc.port5.com > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > To subscribe, send a message to: > pastorsforum-join@... > <mailto:pastorsforum-join@...> > > To unsubscribe, send a message to: > pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... > <mailto:pastorsforum-unsubscribe@...> > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.4/969 - Release > Date: 8/23/2007 4:04 PM > > > To subscribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-join@... > > To unsubs > cribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... > > > > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-join@... > > To unsubs > cribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... > > > > -- ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Pastor Steven G. Rockhill Lisbon Reformed Presbyterian Church PO Box 88 Lisbon, NY 13658 315-393-9041 revrock@... http://lisbonrpc.port5.com +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++