Jerry, Very Good ! The scriptures says is there any sick, call for the elders. Calling for the elders is an act of faith. Rev. Charles Cockroft Associate Pastor First Assembly of God, Denison, Texas A Church Without Walls -------------------------------------------------- From: "Jerry" <jlew@...> Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 8:05 PM To: <pastorsforum@...> Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] The Will of Christ > Randy, > > Faith is never a work, yet faith is demonstrated by works, that is, by > action. But faith in God, believing God, is NOT a work, it is a response > to God's word. > > If a sinner waits for God to save him, he will end up in hell. No one is > saved by "waiting." It is the same with healing,.... if you wait for God > to do something, you will remain sick. The person who says, "I know God > will save me in His own good time." will remain lost. We must believe in > Christ and receive Him as Savior in order to obtain salvation. Same for > healing. It doesn't happen by accident. Miracles do not just happen. They > occur when people act on God's word of promise. As long as Moses held the > rod in his hands, nothing happened. But at the instruction of God, he > held the rod over the water, and it divided. He threw the rod down, and > it turned into a serpent. > > The faith that brings healing is a faith that reaches out to take God at > His word and receive the promised blessing. > > Christ said, "According to your faith be it unto you," not "according to > the sovereign will of God be it unto you." > > Jerry > "And Stephen, full of faith and power, did great wonders and miracles > among the people" (Acts 6:8). > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <shieldwolf@...> > To: <pastorsforum@...> > Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 11:37 PM > Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] The Will of Christ > > >> From a Lutheran perspective, the one thing I might suggest you think >> about >> is that third paragraph. If anything depends upon me, and it is >> something >> I have to do, then it is a work. If my salvation and healing depends >> upon >> me...I realize you don't actually see it as "works" but I would ask that >> you ponder it. We are fallen, sinful, and broken. We are at once >> "sinner >> and saint" and will remain so this side of eternity. >> >> I read Gary's response to this and I think he is right that we may wish >> to >> agree to disagree. As one who is infected with Chronic Epstein Barr and >> taking Valcyte for it...if God heals me this side of Glory, great. If >> not, great. Blessed be the name of the Lord. It's not about me, it's >> about Him. >> >> Blessings, >> Randy >> >>> I do not believe in "laying blame" on anyone that is suffering, nor in >>> accusing God and blaming Him, or in calling Him a liar. Both are wrong >>> in >>> my book. Any person suffering from illness or disease should be dealt >>> with in love and compassion. >>> >>> God is faithful to His Word and He NEVER says "no" to His promises. Yet >>> He >>> expects us to believe His Word and operate in faith to receive His >>> blessings. >>> "That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and >>> patience inherit the promises" (Heb 6:12). >>> >>> There are conditions to receiving both salvation and healing from God, >>> ... >>> faith is not the only one but it is one of the most important. >>> "Then touched he their eyes, saying, According to your faith be it unto >>> you" (Matt 9:29). >>> >>> The unbelief of people prevented Jesus from doing mighty works in some >>> areas. >>> "And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief" (Matt >>> 13:58). >>> "And he did not do many miracles there because of their lack of faith" >>> (Matt 13:58 NIV). >>> "5 And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands >>> upon >>> a few sick folk, and healed them. 6 And he marvelled because of their >>> unbelief. And he went round about the villages, teaching" (Mark 6:5-6). >>> >>> There are several kinds of unbelief. >>> >>> 1) Ignorance to what the Bible says. >>> A person who does not know what God has promised cannot have faith. >>> Bible >>> teaching is the only cure or solution for this kind of unbelief. >>> >>> 2) Refusal to act on what God has promised. >>> Some people know what God has said but refuse to obey or act on the word >>> of God. (Faith without works or corresponding actions is dead and >>> unproductive.) The Children of Israel failed to enter into the promised >>> land because of their unbelief (Hebrews 4:2, 6, 11). Their unbelief was >>> a >>> refusal to act on what God had told them to do. The marginal rendering >>> for >>> unbelief in Hebrews 4:11 is "disobedience." God's instruction to >>> Christians is that the sick one call for the elders of the Church for >>> prayer and anointing with oil. If the sick Christian ignores God's Word >>> of instruction, he has no grounds for faith regarding healing. >>> >>> 3) When the traditions of men speak louder than the Word of God. >>> Men's traditions are roadblocks of unbelief that prevent people from >>> being >>> healed. Some people have been indoctrinated with religious traditions >>> that >>> hinder them from receiving healing from God. If a person is convinced >>> that >>> it is NOT God's will for them to be healed, you are just spinning wheels >>> in praying for healing. If a person thinks God put some disease on them >>> to deepen their piety or to teach them something, they will not oppose >>> and >>> fight against that disease. It is strange that these same people will >>> take medicine trying to get out of what they imagine to be God's will >>> for >>> them. If it is not God's will for you to be healed, why are you going >>> to >>> a doctor? >>> >>> Jerry >>> 'He said to her, "Daughter, your faith has healed you. Go in peace and >>> be >>> freed from your suffering." ' (Mark 5:34). >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Gary Webb >>> To: pastorsforum@... >>> Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2008 11:50 PM >>> Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] The Will of Christ >>> >>> >>> Of course it is wrong, but it is also very common in the experience of >>> people who have sought healing but did not experience it. Some in the >>> "faith church" movement can really leave these folks in great misery >>> because they see healing as a matter of just going through the right >>> steps in prayer and ministry. The assumption is that since they know >>> that they have faith in healing, the person they are praying for must be >>> at fault. Instead of encouraging faith by positive comments about >>> someone's faith making them whole, they reverse it by saying that >>> "you're not being healed because you don't have enough faith." That's >>> nonsense, arrogance, and cruelty. I wouldn't stand for that in our >>> church without speaking out against it. Of course, I would also speak >>> up about those who think "God just doesn't do that anymore." We know >>> in part... >>> >>> GARY WEBB >>> >>> >>> From: Bill burns >>> Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 10:20 PM >>> To: pastorsforum@... >>> Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] The Will of Christ >>> >>> >>> "One of my great concerns is the legalism of Pentecostal circles that >>> lays blame upon the already suffering because they did not experience >>> healing." >>> >>> Where did you come up with that idea? It's totally wrong! >>> >>> Bill >>> >>> Gary Webb <mgwebb@...> wrote: >>> The ultimate healing is not death, nor did I even imply such. Death >>> remains an enemy; as does disease. The ultimate healing is that >>> glorified body that will never experience sickness or death. >>> >>> One of my great concerns is the legalism of Pentecostal circles that >>> lays blame upon the already suffering because they did not experience >>> healing. To me, that remains an outrageous and cruel heresy fit only >>> for the self-righteous. While I continue to pray and encourage others >>> to pray for healing, regardless of how severe the illness, I also try >>> my best to avoid the implication that healing is an entitlement. I >>> won't argue the point because I need only wait until time takes its >>> inevitable toll upon the body of that deceived individual. If they >>> live long enough, they will experience infirmity, injury, or illness >>> that does not vanish. I wish I could give some thorough explanation >>> of it all, but I can't. >>> >>> Unlike some, I don't believe that there is an absolute promise of >>> healing for every sickness and disease. The healings of Jesus, and >>> even the healings of others, specifically follow those who teach the >>> truth of God's Word. I've experienced many in my own ministry. We've >>> laid hands on dozens, even in the past few years and seen God do >>> wonders. But we've also seen those occasions when He didn't and we >>> didn't understand any reason why not. If you know something more >>> that would make a difference, I praise God for that. If so, I would >>> ask that you pray for the most godly woman I've ever known. She's >>> really hurting right now. >>> >>> >>> >>> GARY WEBB >>> >>> >>> From: Jerry Lewis >>> Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 11:18 AM >>> To: pastorsforum@... >>> Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] The Will of Christ >>> >>> >>> Gary, >>> >>> First, we have been praying for your wife, and we thank God for >>> preserving her life and enabling her to recover fully! We continue to >>> lift you both before the Lord. >>> >>> Secondly, I do thank God for His wonderful grace and mercy in >>> providing healing for His children. Jesus said that healing is the >>> "children's bread." Jesus is the Living Savior. He is the Great >>> Physician. One cannot separate Jesus the Healer from Jesus the Savior. >>> He can and does heal with both medicine and faith. Let me >>> reemphasize: >>> When He cast out demons, healed the blind, and lame, He was doing >>> the >>> will of the Father who sent Him. Christ NEVER told anyone that it was >>> not God's will to heal them or that there was some higher purpose in >>> their remaining sick. Everyone who came to Christ for healing was >>> healed. >>> >>> My belief in God's healing grace does not depend on the experiences >>> of >>> others. Some people have good experiences, some do not. We do not >>> interpret the Bible according to our experiences. The reality of >>> divine healing is not established by what people have experienced or >>> by what they have not experienced, but by the Word of the Living God. >>> The proof of divine healing is the life and ministry of Christ and the >>> promises of God unto His children. >>> >>> Praise God for Fannie Crosby and her service to Christ. Yet her >>> failure to receive healing does not disprove God's compassion for the >>> suffering and power for healing for today. The Bible still reads the >>> same. God is still "the LORD that healeth thee." His promise is still >>> "who forgiveth all thine iniquities and healeth all thy diseases" >>> (Psalm 103:3). We must NOT forget or ignore his benefits. There are >>> various reasons some people do not get healed. Some are readily >>> apparent and some are not. There are conditions for both salvation and >>> healing. >>> >>> The man born blind of John 9 and faith? No, he did not understand >>> who >>> Jesus was, yet he responded with a passive faith to the ministry of >>> Christ and obeyed His instructions. Jesus was anointed with healing >>> power and He carried the grace and healing power of God unto this man. >>> (Acts 10:38, Luke 4:18-19, Luke 5:15-7, Luke 6:17-19). There are some >>> instances in the gospels where people who seemingly had no faith were >>> healed by Christ, yet in the majority of accounts of individuals being >>> healed, their faith is specifically mentioned. If I remember >>> correctly, there are something like 19 accounts of individuals being >>> healed, and in 12 of these, there is specific reference to the faith >>> or the "believing" of the ones receiving healing. One of these would >>> be the paralyzed man let down through the roof, ."He saw their faith." >>> Matt 9:29 "Then touched he their eyes, saying, According to your >>> faith be it unto you." When you note this important fact you realize, >>> Jesus was a "faith Healer." >>> >>> Yes, it is correct that sometimes people get healed who seemingly do >>> not have faith themselves. But I have two observations in that >>> regard: >>> >>> 1) Someone has to have faith for their healing. Miracles of >>> healing >>> do not just happen. Someone has to be the catalyst to instigate the >>> healing power of God. It may very well be the evangelist, or pastor >>> that is ministering to that person. They may have spiritual gifts in >>> operation to minister to the sick or a special anointing to minister >>> healing. It could be that someone has been engaged in intercessory >>> prayer on the sick person's behalf. >>> >>> 2) The sick person, if he does not have personal faith to trust >>> God >>> for healing, must not be resistant to what God is doing. He has to >>> cooperate with the one ministering unto him. >>> >>> I agree with your statement, "Every healing in this life is >>> temporary >>> because death eventually claims us all." >>> As long as we live in these bodies on this earth, we are subject to >>> sickness and disease and accidents. Divine healing does not stop or >>> prevent the aging process. >>> >>> I do not agree with this one, "But there is an ultimate healing that >>> will not fade away. " >>> >>> I have heard it said, when someone died of disease, that they got an >>> "ultimate healing." That is nonsense. To my knowledge, there is no >>> passage of Scripture that speaks of anyone dying as a "healing." >>> Healing is for this life, for our physical bodies. After we die, >>> there will be no need for healing. After the rapture, we will have >>> glorified bodies, and again, there will be no need for healing. When >>> Jesus healed the sick, He forgave their sins and healed their physical >>> bodies. >>> >>> Gary, the bottom line is this: >>> >>> The Bible records ONE instance where a man questioned the will of >>> Christ regarding healing. A leper came to Christ and said, "If thou >>> wilt, thou canst make me clean" (Mark 1:40). But note carefully >>> Jesus' response, "And Jesus, moved with compassion, put forth his >>> hand, and touched him, and saith unto him, I will; be thou clean. And >>> as soon as he had spoken, immediately the leprosy departed from him, >>> and he was cleansed" (Mark 1:41-42). Christ's definitive answer should >>> settle the issue for every honest inquirer. "Filled with compassion, >>> Jesus reached out his hand and touched the man. "I am willing," he >>> said. "Be clean!" (Mark 1:41 NIV). >>> >>> The Bible gives us instruction for the sick to call for the elders >>> of >>> the church to request prayer with anointing with oil, and states "And >>> the prayer of faith shall save the sick" (James 5:15). This is the >>> Word of the Living God. Not just any kind of prayer, but the "prayer >>> of faith," . it always works! >>> >>> In verse 16, the Bible says, "pray one for another, that ye may be >>> healed." >>> >>> Both of these passages are a revelation of the will of God for >>> healing >>> the sick. Verse 16 of James 5 is a direct command for every follower >>> of Christ. >>> >>> That leaves only one reasonable course of action for me, or any >>> other >>> Bible-believing Christian, we must obey God and pray for and minister >>> unto the sick the healing grace of Christ. >>> >>> Jerry >>> "a great multitude of people . which came to hear him, and to be >>> healed of their diseases; And they that were vexed with unclean >>> spirits: and they were healed. And the whole multitude sought to touch >>> him: for there went virtue out of him, and healed them all" (Luke >>> 6:17-19). >>> >>> >>> = To subscribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-join@... >>> To >>> unsubs= cribe, send a message to: >>> pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... >>> = >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG. >>> Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.5/1357 - Release Date: >>> 4/3/2008 10:48 AM >>> >>> >>> To subscribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-join@... To >>> unsubscribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Bill Burns >>> Old Town Soup Kitchen >>> 600 Gratiot St. >>> Saginaw, Michigan 48602 >>> 989.791.4549 or cell 989.980.2447 >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> >>> >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG. >>> Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.5/1357 - Release Date: >>> 4/3/2008 10:48 AM >>> >>> >>> To subscribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-join@... >>> >>> To unsubs >>> cribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> To subscribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-join@... >>> >>> To unsubscribe, send a message to: >>> pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... >>> >>> >> >> To subscribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-join@... >> >> To unsubscribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... >> > > To subscribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-join@... > > To unsubscribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... >