His parents were bad Christians and bad Lutherans. Good heavens. At EVERY SERVICE we start out by confessing our sins and asking for forgiveness. Do we believe God can begin a relationship with someone in Baptism? Yes. Do we think Christians still need to practice 1 Jn 1:9 in their daily lives? Of course we do. This is just another extremist example. I notice he doesn't mention that while some Anabaptists were pacifists, many openly rebelled against their governments. Randy > copied from a friend's site ... > > "My 'Memento and Certificate of Baptism' and my daughter's 'Certificate of > Holy Baptism,' both as babies into the Lutheran Church. As you can see, my > certificate was printed by the Missouri Synod's Concordia Publishing House > and reads, 'In Baptism full salvation has been given unto you; God has > become your Father, and you have become His child.' My daughter's reads, > 'You are a child of God because God has made you His child through this > act. > All of God's promises belong to you as you live under Him in His Kingdom.' > > > *"You must know that Luther's Catechism,* used in every Lutheran Synod, > declares concerning the 'Sacrament of Baptism,' that 'it works forgiveness > of sins, delivers from death and the devil, and gives eternal salvation to > all who believe this, as the words and promises of God declare.' It also > states regarding the 'Sacrament of the Altar' [the Lord's Supper], > 'namely, > that in the Sacrament forgiveness of sins, life, and salvation are given > us > through these words.' > > *"This false sacramental gospel kept my parents from ever telling me that > I > was a sinner and needed a Savior. They thought that I had received eternal > life in baptism. I am positive that there are millions of Lutherans > believing the same thing my parents did and which I was taught and > believed > for many years. > * > "I was saved at age 45 when I finally heard the true gospel and believed > it. > Martin Luther protested some of the obvious error and corruption in the > Catholic Church, but kept the sacraments as the means of grace by which a > person must be saved. This is taught from his Catechism in every Lutheran > Church today. > > "Furthermore, like the Roman Catholics, both Luther and Calvin and their > followers at that time persecuted our true spiritual forefathers, the > Anabaptists, who refused to submit to baby baptism or to acknowledge the > physical presence of Christ in the bread and wine at the Lord's Table. > > "We believe that millions of souls are at stake because of this false > teaching." > > > NO WONDER LUTHER HATED THE BAPTIST. > > > > > > On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 7:38 PM, Shieldwolf <shieldwolf@...> wrote: > >> Another great response. Again, I would never claim people like this in >> my >> karate lineage as being "masters" and yet some want to claim them: >> >> http://en.allexperts.com/q/Baptists-954/Trail-Blood.htm >> Dear Pastor Carpenter, >> >> Thank you for referring me to the book 'The Trail of Blood' by Dr. >> Carroll. >> I must say I found it entertaining. He attempts to show that >> historical >> heretical groups, the Montanists, Novatianists, Donatists, Paulicians, >> Albigensians, Catharists, Waldenses, and Anabaptists were really early >> Baptists, and that they were pursued by Catholics and wiped out. There >> is no >> evidence of this because the 'evidence' was destroyed by the Catholic >> Church. Apparently, many Baptist theologians reject this story as >> unfounded >> and not credible. >> >> Here is some information on those groups: >> >> 1. Montanists denied all second marriages, even after the death of the >> spouse. They required all virgins to wear veils in church and denied the >> forgiveness of sins, thus making a movement without hope. >> >> 2. Novatianists taught that no sin was to be forgiven after Baptism. >> They >> too denied second marriages under any circumstances. Novatian covertly >> had >> himself declared a Bishop and was subsequently ex-communicated. >> >> 3. Donatists taught that the true church consisted only of the elect and >> that Baptisms were only valid when performed by a Donatist. >> >> 4. Paulicians believed in the plurality of gods, held that all matter >> was >> bad, rejected the Old Testament, denied the incarnation, and said Christ >> was >> an angel. They refused to honour the cross by saying Christ had not been >> crucified. >> >> 5. Albigensians believed in two gods, one good and the other evil. They >> rejected all sacraments, and declared it was sinful to marry. This >> promoted >> sexual permissiveness. Pregnancy was to be avoided and abortion was >> promoted. >> >> 6. Catharists were followers of all the heresies of the Albigensians. >> >> 7. Waldenses taught that the Church should have no property and >> condemned >> tithing. Interestingly, they accepted the Holy Eucharist as the Body of >> Christ. >> >> 8. Anabaptists, practiced polygamy and communism. They condemned oaths >> as >> unlawful. Anabaptists were founded by Thomas Munser in 1521. I think >> this >> fact alone refutes the Baptist claim to antiquity. >> >> My question to you is this: Having recounted the >> deeds of these heretical groups, why would anyone want to claim any as >> ancestral proof of origin? >> My final question is this: If we can only believe what is in the Bible, >> does the Bible ever even hint that John the Baptist founded a church? >> >> If Evangelical Baptists have existed since the time of John the Baptist, >> then I think history books should have many references to them. The >> writings >> of the early church fathers, the historians of their day, do not mention >> Evangelicals or Baptists at all. But what is very interesting is that >> the >> writings of scores of them mention the Catholic church by name, hundreds >> of >> times. In the writings of Saint Augustine (354-430) alone, he mentions >> the >> Catholic Church, by name, over 300 times. >> >> Regards, >> >> Les >> >> To subscribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-join@... >> >> To unsubscribe, send a message to: >> pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... >> >> > > > -- > Bro. Jeff Hallmark > www.sprucelandbaptist.com > http://baptist-potluck.blogspot.com/ > > To subscribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-join@... > > To unsubscribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... >