Most liberals do not want to give specifics and often avoid questions and
letters asking for a response. I do note that Zacharias graduated for a
very liberal seminary which makes the need for questions needing answers all
the more important.
PDW
-----Original Message-----
From: Pastor Hughes [mailto:embc@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 10:30 AM
To: pastorsforum@...
Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] RAVING OVER RAVI
Ravi Zacharias: No Replies to Letters, Questionnaire
by Bud Press, Director
Christian Research Service
www.christianresearchservice.com
March 11, 2005
On November 14, 2004, noted Christian apologist and philosopher, Ravi
Zacharias, delivered a speech to a mixed crowd of Christians and Mormons at
the Mormon Tabernacle in Salt Lake City, Utah. But before he took his turn
at the podium, Richard Mouw, President of Fuller Theological Seminary,
caused a firestorm of controversy within many apologetic/cult-evangelistic
ministries worldwide, when he took it upon himself to:
a.. apologize to Mormons for the "Evangelicals" who "have often
misrepresented the faith and beliefs of the Latter-day Saints."
b.. state, "Let me state it clearly. We evangelicals have sinned against
you" and added that "both camps have tended to marginalize and simplify the
others' beliefs."
c.. imply that Christians have bore "false witness" against Mormons.
d.. hope that "...many in the evangelical community will take part in" the
"200th anniversary of Joseph Smith's birthday next December" and "several
scholarly events planned to celebrate during the coming year" as well.
In a moment of time, Mouw patronized the leadership and members of one of
the largest cults on the planet, and did so at the expense of dedicated
Christians and former Mormons worldwide. Although Mormonism makes "gods" of
men, denies the deity of Christ, virgin birth, Trinity, salvation by grace
alone and blasphemes the God of the Bible, not one of the thousands of
Christians listening to Mouw--including Ravi Zacharias--stood-up and
confronted him either during or immediately after his speech.
While Mouw eventually provided replies to those disturbed by his statements,
Zacharias has chosen not to reply to letters and a questionnaire from
concerned Christians within the field of apologetics and cult evangelism.
First attempt to contact Zacharias
After a careful evaluation of the available information leading up to and
immediately after Zacharias' speech, on November 20, 2004, Bud Press,
Director of Christian Research Service, wrote a letter to Zacharias and
requested both a transcript of his 11/20/04 speech and a statement on Mouw's
controversial comments. After all, Zacharias claims to be a Christian
apologist, and is the editor of the late Walter Martin's book, The Kingdom
of the Cults (2003 edition).
Moreover, by his own words, Zacharias is known for offering "answers" to
both the "skeptic and the believer" on a variety of issues:
"To the questions of the skeptic and the believer we offer an apologetic -
we give an answer - to the counterclaims of secularism and other worldviews.
We address the intellectual and essential assumptions of our culture,
realizing that for some, the door to the heart is through the mind, and for
others through the imagination" (Ravi Zacharias, "Ministry Description").
But in an e-mail titled, "Response from RZIM" dated November 22, 2004, it
was Betsy Childs, Staff Writer for Ravi Zacharias International Ministries
who replied, stating in part that:
a.. a transcript of Zacharias' 11/14/04 speech at the Mormon Tabernacle is
not available, but that a recorded version could be purchased from Greg
Johnson's website at www.standingtogether.org/resources.html .
b.. Zacharias' took a "strong stand" in his speech.
c.. Zacharias "will not be issuing a public statement" on Richard Mouw's
comments.
Apparently, Zacharias passed-the-buck to Childs who, in turn,
passed-the-buck to Richard Mouw by encouraging Press to contact Mouw under
the Biblical guideline of "conflict resolution."
Conflict resolution. Interesting choice of words.
Thus, when it comes to requesting information, a statement and answers to
important questions, Zacharias has chosen to play it safe, say nothing, and
hope the controversy and letter-writers and question-askers will silently
fade away, never to be heard from again.
But that's not likely to happen. For until Zacharias is willing to stop
being used by the Mormon church and its sympathizers, be accountable to the
body of Christ and accept responsibility for his actions, there will always
be letters and questions.
Second attempt to contact Zacharias
In a second attempt to contact Zacharias, Press--along with pastors,
evangelists and apologists--provided a list of Questions for Ravi Zacharias
on February 6, 2005.
But on February 8, 2005, again it was Betsy Childs who replied to Press on
"behalf of Ravi Zacharias."
Childs' stated, in part, that Zacharias has no desire to "engage" with Press
"in a public debate." And because Press considered this a public issue,
Childs presumed it was "an attempt to thrust Dr. Zacharias into a public
conversation that he has chosen not to have."
It is important to note that the introduction to the Questions for Ravi
Zacharias clearly and plainly states, in part, that: "Christians need to be
accountable to the body of Christ, whether their ministry is a local
pastorate or international." The letter to Zacharias mentions nothing about
a "public debate," and the questionnaire certainly wasn't an attempt to
thrust Zacharias into a "public conversation."
Childs continued and found it "puzzling" that Press would invoke "Matthew
18:15-17" to suggest that since Dr. Zacharias's speech at the Mormon
Tabernacle was a public event," Zacharias "must now publicly respond to
questions about it."
Again, the introduction to the questionnaire plainly states that "The
meetings in Utah took place in a public forum, which means that this issue
does not fall within the guidelines of Matthew 18:15-17. Therefore this
questionnaire and your reply will be made available to the body of Christ.
Public issues deserve public responses, as seen several times in Scripture
(Acts 15:6-7; 15:38-39; 1 Corinthians 7:1; etc.)" (emp. not in original).
Needless to say, both the letter and questionnaire are simple to understand,
void of linguistic and philosophical confusion, and were purposely written
on a 10th grade level--regardless of Childs' interpretation.
Separating the 'inappropriate' questions from the 'appropriate'?
Three days after the questionnaire was provided to Zacharias and other
Christians, a source close to Zacharias contacted Press via e-mail, and
stated, in part, that:
"I did read your questions. They were far more than the several you
expressed on the phone that day! I was very surprised that you posted them
publicly before we had the opportunity to process them through Ravi. This
will probably complicate things. There are a number of 'questions' that are
inappropriate in my and others' opinion, and some very appropriate. I will
take the one's I consider appropriate to him and report back his responses
to those. I'm assuming you sent the letter to Ravi so he can respond to the
rest as he chooses although I'm not sure I would respond if I received it"
On February 20, 2005, the same source wrote that he would call Press and get
"on target with the issues" with Zacharias, "but it will have to wait until
after next week."
As of this writing, there has been no reply from the source.
Again, it is important to note that Ravi Zacharias' speeches during
mid-November 2004 in Salt Lake City, were advertised publicly (not
privately), and conducted in a public (not private) forum, with thousands in
attendance. That's about as public as you can get. Thus, Matthew 18:15-17
did not apply in this particular situation.
It is also important to note that while the source considered a "number" of
the questions "inappropriate" and others "very appropriate," the
introduction to the questionnaire clearly and plainly states that:
"The questions are from pastors, evangelists and apologists who care deeply
about the body of Christ and the truth of God's word. The questions are
based on documented information."
Note the words, documented information.
The number of questions could have easily doubled, but were edited for
space. And, those who contributed to the questionnaire didn't consider any
of the questions "inappropriate." Thus, all of the questions presented to
Zacharias were, indeed, sincere and most appropriate.
Bottom line: If questions for a world renowned Christian such as Ravi
Zacharias have to be sifted through a pick-and-choose/screened-gauntlet
beforehand, then why bother asking the questions in the first place? Maybe
that's why a growing number of Christians hesitate to ask the tough
questions. Maybe they fear rejection or reprisal from fellow Christians.
Whatever the case may be, honest questions deserve honest answers, due to
the fact that no Christian--regardless of their position within the body of
Christ--is above being asked; nor are they above accountability. This isn't
a popularity contest. This is serious business.
Christians should never be afraid to ask questions. Then, depending on the
circumstances, hold those accountable who refuse to answer.
More letters. No replies
Rauni Higley and her husband, Dennis, are former Mormons, now Christians,
with an outreach ministry to Mormons. Rauni worked as a translator for LDS
church leaders for 14 years, and was an active Mormon for 20 years. Both
Rauni and Dennis were dedicated Mormons and were well versed in LDS
doctrine.
On September 15, 2004, almost two months before Zacharias spoke at the
Mormon Tabernacle, Rauni wrote a compelling letter to Zacharias, stating, in
part:
"I have been very troubled by your coming visit to speak in the Mormon
Tabernacle, because I am sure that it will be used by the Mormon Church as
your endorsement that Mormonism is part of Christianity. I am also
absolutely sure that your name will be used in months and even years to come
by the LDS Church, and its almost sixty thousand missionaries, to convert
more people into Mormonism from Christianity, especially if you also meet
with the Mormon Church's president and other leaders.
"The only way that this can be avoided is if you clearly speak of Jesus who
is not 'Lucifer's/Satan's brother', but the Creator of him and all things,
visible and invisible (Col. 1:16), also making clear to all listening, that
God of the Bible is not a former mortal man, but Eternal God, 'from
everlasting to everlasting' (Ps. 90:2), who does not have Gods before Him
(Is. 43:10) nor after Him, as is taught by the Mormon Church that men will
become gods, like their God had 'become' a God.
"I have been familiar with your Ministry for many, many years, and I have
enjoyed listening to you on Christian radio, and reading many of your books.
It saddens me however to know that your name will be used to promote a cult
of Mormonism. I know how Mormons think and how they use Christian terms to
say something totally opposite. It is a very clever plan to get accepted
into Christianity without changing any of their doctrines. 'Been there, done
that'." (emp. theirs)
Indeed, while Rauni's experience as a member of the Mormon church qualifies
her as an expert on Mormonism, her being a Christian qualifies her to reach
out and share her concerns for what Zacharias was about to willingly walk
into.
Rauni's letters to Zacharias are not only visionary in scope and hauntingly
insightful, they encouraged Zacharias and challenged him to remember the
importance and definition of apologetics, and the desperate need to draw a
distinction between historic Christianity and Mormonism, and put things in
terms that everyone, especially Mormons destined for hell, could understand.
Yet, in the midst of her concern, truth and love she shared in her letter,
Rauni received no reply from Zacharias, whatsoever, or from anyone within
his ministry.
Neither was there a reply to Rauni's November 22, 2004 letter to Zacharias.
Yes, considering the volume of correspondence that Zacharias receives on a
regular basis, the impossibility of his personal reply to everyone is
perfectly understandable. However, there are exceptions to the rule. The
letters and questionnaire were serious business, and represented the
concerns of Christians worldwide, many of whom know Zacharias personally.
Therefore, at this point, by his refusal to answer letters and questions,
Ravi Zacharias joins a list of individuals, all of whom have, for whatever
reason, chosen not to reply to the concerns and questions of Christians.
They have established for themselves a sort of exclusive diplomatic immunity
to replying to letters and answering the honest and sincere, but tough
questions.
William Shakespeare was correct when he wrote,
If they make you not then the better answer, you
may say they are not the men you took them for
Sometimes, an outright refusal to answer letters and questions is an answer
in and of itself.
Sincerely in Christ,
Bud Press, Director
Christian Research Service
www.christianresearchservice.com
March 11, 2005
(Jude 3)
----- Original Message -----
From: <shieldwolf@...>
To: <pastorsforum@...>
Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 6:43 AM
Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] Miracles Amoung Muslims
> If the premier Christian Apologist of our day, Ravi Zacharias, notes that
> Muslims seem to frequently encounter Christ in their dreams and that
> assists GREATLY with their conversion, than such is good enough evidence
> for me. Ravi is no "fly-by-nighter" nor is he Pentecostal, etc. He was
> trained at Trinity Evangelical Divinity School and is clearly NOT
> theologically liberal or open to "over-emotional" outbursts, etc.
>
> I realize that he is to left of Atilla the Hun, so that makes him liberal
> for some on this list, but the facts of the commonly accepted definitions
> in use by the overall theological community of English speaking countries
> prove otherwise.
>
> God is working today in ways which many of us (including myself) with our
> particular theological bents are made uncomfortable. Good. We need to be
> challenged by the Greatness of our God. Every time we shove Him into a
> box and tell Him He must work only how we say, He has ways of popping out.
>
> Blessings from the latitudinarian Lutheran,
> Randy
>
>> DW,
>>
>> God still speaks to people in visions and dreams today. His power has
>> not
>> vanished. He is still God and He still moves in power to rescue lost
>> people from their sin and suffering. Sometimes God uses extraordinary
>> measures to accomplish His purposes.
>>
>> God did it in the Bible, all through both Old and New Testaments. Some
>> of
>> these visions were instrumental to people being saved, like Paul and the
>> whole house of Cornelius.
>>
>> God has spoken to me in both dreams and visions. It is not something
>> that
>> has happened frequently, but I know it is real.
>>
>> This book, "Miracles Among Muslims" documents scores of cases where
>> Muslims testified of having dreams and visions where God spoke to them
>> and
>> in some way impressed upon them that Jesus is the Savior who died for
>> their sins, and was significant in their coming to saving faith in
>> Christ
>> Jesus. Jeff posted a link to the entire book online. Check it out, ...
>> if you dare.
>>
>> Now, you mention Brownsville and Toronto. I have never been to either
>> place, but I have read many accounts and have spoken with people who were
>> mightily blessed by the revival services in both locations. While I will
>> not condone or accept everything said or done by the leaders in
>> Brownsville or Toronto, I have no doubt that God was there in power.
>>
>>>>>>So the claim that they have to be real because God's power is not
>>>>>> diminished is a faulty argument/reasoning/statement.
>>
>> You present a mishmash here that is a non sequitor. You are combining
>> statements here in a way that I did not propose. I do not accept all
>> claimed dreams and visions as being real or from God. That statement
>> really has nothing to do with what I have been sharing or the revivals in
>> Brownsville and Toronto. Perhaps you will examine the two chapters in C.
>> Darg's book titled, "Biblical Dreams and Visions," and "How to Discern if
>> a Vision or Dream is From God."
>>
>> BTW, I don't believe in kicking anyone in the face unless we are in a
>> fight.
>>
>> Jerry
>> "And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out
>> of
>> my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall
>> prophesy,
>> and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream
>> dreams:Acts 2:17 KJV
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: David Warner
>> To: pastorsforum@...
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 7:40 PM
>> Subject: RE: [PastorsForum] Miracles Amoung Muslims
>>
>>
>> Jerry,
>>
>> Your "statement" is an argument based on assumptions of which all are
>> not in agreement.
>>
>>
>>
>> ar·gu·ment (är"gy.-m.nt) n. 1.a. A discussion in which disagreement is
>> expressed; a debate. b. A quarrel; a dispute. c. Archaic. A reason or
>> matter for dispute or contention: "sheath'd their swords for lack of
>> argument" (Shakespeare). 2.a. A course of reasoning aimed at
>> demonstrating truth or falsehood
>>
>>
>>
>> You presented your argument in the form of a statement. I disputed it
>> by contending it was inaccurate and showed you why it was inaccurate.
>> While many think "God is doing something wonderful" it isn't always God.
>> The hoodlum in Florida who kicks old ladies in the face because he
>> claims the Holy Spirit came upon him is also claiming God is doing
>> something wonderful thru him. Those people in Brownsville and Toronto
>> make similar silly claims that are unbiblical. I know God is not it
>> them because I can test them and their claims by Scripture. I don't
>> care what kind of visions or hallucinations they have the Scriptures
>> declare they are false. So the claim that they have to be real because
>> God's power is not diminished is a faulty argument/reasoning/statement.
>>
>>
>>
>> PDW
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
>>
>> From: Jerry Lewis [mailto:jlew0@...]
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 5:36 PM
>> To: pastorsforum@...
>> Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] Miracles Amoung Muslims
>>
>>
>>
>> DW,
>>
>>
>>
>> It was a statement, not an argument!
>>
>>
>>
>> Men cannot manufacture visions. God is the one who grants them.
>>
>>
>>
>> And, yes, I do believe God will create a new heaven and earth, ... I
>> just am not sure when!!!
>>
>>
>>
>> And when hundreds of Muslims tell of seeing dreams and visions and in
>> those dreams and visions they tell how they saw Jesus and He reveals
>> Himself to them as the Savior who He died for their sins on the cross,
>> .... well, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand that God is
>> doing something wonderful.
>>
>>
>>
>> Jerry
>>
>> "And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out
>> of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall
>> prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall
>> dream dreams:Acts 2:17 KJV
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>
>> From: David Warner
>>
>> To: pastorsforum@...
>>
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 5:11 PM
>>
>> Subject: RE: [PastorsForum] Miracles Amoung Muslims
>>
>>
>>
>> Jerry,
>>
>>
>>
>> The argument that God's power has not vanished is an invalid
>> argument.
>> For certain God's power has not vanished but He is not using that
>> power to create the heaven and the earth today - unless you want to
>> argue that because He will create a new heaven and earth that He is
>> still actively creating and we can see it every day.
>>
>>
>>
>> PDW
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> From: Jerry Lewis [mailto:jlew0@...]
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 4:21 PM
>> To: pastorsforum@...
>> Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] Miracles Amoung Muslims
>>
>>
>>
>> Miguel,
>>
>>
>>
>> Do not forget, brother, the man who penned that verse of Scripture
>> (Rom 1:18) got saved because Christ appeared unto him in a vision!!!
>>
>>
>>
>> God is doing the same thing today! His power has not vanished.
>>
>>
>>
>> Jerry
>>
>> "And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour
>> out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters
>> shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men
>> shall dream dreams:Acts 2:17 KJV
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>
>> From: Miguel
>>
>> To: pastorsforum@...
>>
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 12:20 AM
>>
>> Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] Miracles Amoung Muslims
>>
>>
>>
>> Romans 1:18 (KJV) For the preaching of the cross is to them that
>> perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of
>> God.
>>
>>
>>
>> -------------- Original message --------------
>> From: "Jerry" <jlew@...>
>>
>> Fidel,
>>
>>
>>
>> Look at the Scriptures, ... you do believe the Bible, don't
>> you????
>>
>>
>>
>> Paul heard the Word, probably at Stephens stoning, if not before,
>> yet God still used the vision of Jesus to bring him to saving
>> faith.
>>
>>
>>
>> Christ is the Savior, not the vision, but God used the vision to
>> communicate His Word.
>>
>>
>>
>> God has spoken all through the Bible unto people through dreams
>> and visions.
>>
>>
>>
>> Peter went to a place of prayer and fell into a trance and saw a
>> vision. God spoke to him in this vision and it led to many people
>> being saved. They were filled with the Holy Ghost and Peter
>> baptized them in water.
>>
>>
>>
>> Acts 10:9-15
>>
>> 9 On the morrow, as they went on their journey, and drew nigh
>> unto
>> the city, Peter went up upon the housetop to pray about the sixth
>> hour:
>>
>> 10 And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while
>> they
>> made ready, he fell into a trance,
>>
>> 11 And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto
>> him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and
>> let down to the earth:
>>
>> 12 Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and
>> wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.
>>
>> 13 And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.
>>
>> 14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing
>> that is common or unclean.
>>
>> 15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God
>> hath cleansed, that call not thou common.
>>
>> Jerry
>>
>> "They brought to him many who were possessed with demons; and he
>> cast out the spirits with a word, and healed all who were sick.
>> This was to fulfil what was spoken by the prophet Isaiah, 'He took
>> our infirmities and bore our diseases.' "(Matt 8:16-17).
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>
>> From: Pastor Hughes
>>
>> To: pastorsforum@...
>>
>> Sent: Monday, June 09, 2008 11:10 PM
>>
>> Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] Miracles Amoung Muslims
>>
>>
>>
>> Jerry
>>
>>
>>
>> were you saved by a vision?
>>
>> I wasnt........
>>
>>
>>
>> it was thru the preaching of the Word of God
>>
>>
>>
>> men are saved by preaching the bible says....
>>
>>
>>
>> hope this helps
>>
>> fidel
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>
>> From: Jerry
>>
>> To: pastorsforum@...
>>
>> Sent: Monday, June 09, 2008 7:46 PM
>>
>> Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] Miracles Amoung Muslims
>>
>>
>>
>> Fidel,
>>
>>
>>
>> Yes, Romans 10:17 is in the Bible. But so is Acts 9 that
>> tells
>> how Paul saw Christ in a vision, and it led directly to his
>> salvation.
>>
>>
>>
>> In Acts 26:19, Paul told King Agrippa, "So then, King
>> Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the vision from heaven. If
>> you check the good king's authorized version, you will see
>> that it reads practically the same.
>>
>>
>>
>> If you will read the whole of the Bible, you will see that
>> God
>> speaks to men through dreams and visions from Genesis to
>> Revelation.
>>
>>
>>
>> He even promised, "And it shall come to pass in the last
>> days,
>> saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and
>> your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young
>> men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream
>> dreams:Acts 2:17 KJV
>>
>> Jerry
>>
>> "They brought to him many who were possessed with demons; and
>> he cast out the spirits with a word, and healed all who were
>> sick. This was to fulfil what was spoken by the prophet
>> Isaiah, 'He took our infirmities and bore our diseases.'
>> "(Matt 8:16-17).
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>
>> From: Pastor Hughes
>>
>> To: pastorsforum@...
>>
>> Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2008 7:40 PM
>>
>> Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] Miracles Amoung Muslims
>>
>>
>>
>> Romans 10:17
>>
>>
>>
>> now romans is an interesting book too....
>>
>>
>>
>> the Great Commision is still in effect...
>>
>>
>>
>> go ye....
>>
>>
>>
>> its not see ye????
>>
>>
>>
>> have a good one
>>
>> pastor hughes
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>
>> From: Jerry
>>
>> To: PASTORS FORUM
>>
>> Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2008 10:15 AM
>>
>> Subject: [PastorsForum] Miracles Amoung Muslims
>>
>>
>>
>> Gary,
>>
>>
>>
>> I am reading a very interesting book, "Miracles Among
>> Muslims" by Christine Darg.
>>
>>
>>
>> This would be a good book to list in your evangelism
>> bibliography.
>>
>>
>>
>> This author is used of the Lord in evangelizing Muslims
>> in
>> the Middle East. She relates multiple incidents of
>> Muslims having dreams and visions that lead or assist them
>> in coming to faith in Christ.
>>
>>
>>
>> One incident she related in her book sounded very similar
>> to the story of Paul's conversion on the road to Damascus.
>>
>>
>>
>> A Palestinian, named Mufeed, "openly described how he had
>> met the Lord one night while walking along the dusty road
>> of a refugee camp. No Christian missionary had witnessed
>> to him. Jesus simply appeared to him in a halo of light
>> and said, 'I am Jesus. Follow me.' " (Miracles Among
>> Muslims, Christine Darg, Destiny Image Jerusalem pg. 57).
>>
>>
>>
>> Now, with Paul, we could presume that he heard the gospel
>> through Stephen and other NT preachers. But with this
>> Palestinian man, how did he hear the gospel?
>>
>>
>>
>> She also relates a story how in 1868 in Damascus among
>> the
>> Shazli sect of Islam, Jesus appeared to people in dreams.
>> "The Holy Spirit had so encouraged them to follow the Good
>> Shepherd, and now they were so filled with a happiness
>> they had never before experienced, that they were hardly
>> dissuaded from proclaiming Christ in the streets."
>>
>>
>>
>> According to Ms Darg, quoting a biography of the British
>> explorer Richard Burton, "What originally had seemed like
>> no more than a few hundred ... Arabs seeking a Savior...
>> quickly assumed the proportions of a major heresy. Some
>> 25,000 Shazlis were now reported ready for Baptism ....
>>
>>
>>
>> "The account relates how Sir Richard had rather naively
>> hoped that Jerusalem's Latin patriarch would baptize all
>> 25,000 Shazlis and assist in their safe resettlement.
>>
>>
>>
>> "But apparently it was not politically or 'religiously'
>> correct for these Muslims to change their religion. The
>> patriarch reported the extraordinary phenomenon to the
>> authorities at Damascus, and that action brought a swift
>> end to the Shazli saga.
>>
>>
>>
>> " 'In the end,' writes the author, 'the British embassy
>> at
>> Constantinople, the Latin patriarch in Jerusalem, and
>> [high-ranking Turks] all had a role in betraying the
>> converts.' Many were cruelly martyred.
>>
>>
>>
>> "The question must be asked: if the Holy Spirit moved
>> powerfully again in the Middle East and 25,000 or ore
>> Muslims in a city desired with all of their hearts to turn
>> to Jesus, would the institutional Church welcome them
>> today? Or would church leaders again do the 'politically
>> correct' thing and betray the believers?" (Miracles Among
>> Muslims, Christine Darg, Destiny Image Jerusalem, pg.
>> 55-56).
>>
>>
>>
>> This is a fascinating book!!!
>>
>>
>>
>> Jerry
>>
>> "They brought to him many who were possessed with demons;
>> and he cast out the spirits with a word, and healed all
>> who were sick. This was to fulfil what was spoken by the
>> prophet Isaiah, 'He took our infirmities and bore our
>> diseases.' "(Matt 8:16-17).
>>
>>
>>
>> =To subscribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-join@... To
>> unsubs=cribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-unsubscribe@...
>> =
>>
>>
>>
>> To subscribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-join@... To
>> unsubscribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-unsubscribe@...
>>
>>
>>
>> =To subscribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-join@... To
>> unsubs=cribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-unsubscribe@...
>> =
>>
>>
>>
>> To subscribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-join@... To
>> unsubscribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-unsubscribe@...
>>
>>
>>
>> To subscribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-join@... To
>> unsubscribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-unsubscribe@...
>>
>>
>>
>> To subscribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-join@... To
>> unsubscribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-unsubscribe@...
>>
>>
>>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG.
>> Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.2.0/1494 - Release Date:
>> 6/10/2008 7:22 AM
>>
>>
>>
>> To subscribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-join@... To
>> unsubscribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-unsubscribe@...
>>
>>
>>
>> =To subscribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-join@... To
>> unsubs=cribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-unsubscribe@...
>> =
>>
>>
>>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG.
>> Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.2.0/1494 - Release Date:
>> 6/10/2008 7:22 AM
>>
>>
>>
>> To subscribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-join@... To
>> unsubscribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-unsubscribe@...
>>
>>
>>
>> To subscribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-join@...
>>
>> To unsubs
>> cribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-unsubscribe@...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> To subscribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-join@...
>>
>> To unsubscribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-unsubscribe@...
>>
>>
>
> To subscribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-join@...
>
> To unsubscribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-unsubscribe@...
>
>
To subscribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-join@...
To unsubscribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-unsubscribe@...