david, thank you - as i read hebrews 10:25 i do understand where you are coming from - in "meeting together" we do not have to do so in a church. many in the postmodern conversation are doing "home communities" - when small groups are meeting in homes - and never in a "church building" - for worship, food, fellowship, prayer and other group activites that are people driven and not program driven. when i speak of "church" i am speaking of the "instutitional church" - the corporation - the "tax break" - in home communities people give to support the ministry, without a care about the "tax break" - in the church today, most people are concerned with the tax deduction they get from giving - in such a setting not knowing if a person is in the community is easy :) and people support the ministry because they see it making a difference - pax jok --- Pastor David Warner <dwarner@...> wrote: > John, > Some real good thought here. I was ready to say > AMEN! until I got to the > fourth line. Leaving out the expletive you wrote > "it's (church attendance) > not required at > all." If you're talking about salvation, you're > 100% right. If you're > talking about obedience; that is another matter. > Hebrews 10:25 isn't a > suggestion. God put it in His Book for us to obey. > Further, I liked your > question, "how can a church have a person on a > "inactive" list for 30 years > and never strive to find out why?" Excellent > question! Shame on such a > church--especially the pastor and other church > leaders. > David > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: john okeefe [mailto:jxpxus@...] > Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 11:22 AM > To: pastorsforum@... > Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] out of church > > > salvation is not based on anything you can or will > do > - it is a free gift with the price paid on the cross > - > if you add anything to that you take away from the > price jesus paid for us - going to church is not > required for salvation - heck, it's not required at > all. this brings me to other questions about > churches > - some questions - but first a little on the > churches > i have served - > > i am currently the pastor of family ministries with > a > suburban church in northen california - i have been > the senior pastor of churches in the past and the > guy > who is lead on this church plant asked if i would > help > (i have planted two churches before) and i agreed to > help. the churches i have been senior pastor of > have > not been very big - 300 to 500 families (about 600 > to > 1,000 adults), this church (a plant) is about 100 > families and growing - we are 100% > non-demoninational > (and connected to no other association or group). > the > age grouping in the churches i have planted is > between > 33-36 years old - with most of the people under 33. > currently the church i serve in has a age grouping > of > between 35-40 - > > none of the churches i have ever served (with the > exception of one old lady) ever had people over the > age of 45 - and every church i have served has had > more people on sunday morning then we had as > "members" > > how can a church have a person on a "inactive" list > for 30 years and never strive to find out why? > > how can a church have less coming then it does as > "members?" > > if you talked with the people who are not coming you > might find that they will give you the sames answers > my friend did in the 10 reasons :) > > pax > jok > > > --- mwcarnes <mickey04@...> wrote: > > A question for discussion Every church has its > > homebound members they go every where but to > church. > > an inactive list that keep growing and those who > > have not been to church in 30 years. Based on Heb. > > 6:4-6 and I-John 2:9 Can a person be saved and not > > go to church? mc > > -- > > To unsubscribe, send ANY message to: > > pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... > > > > "In essential things, unity; in non-essential > > things, liberty; and in all things, charity." > > > > > ===== > john o'keefe > http://www.ginkworld.net > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam > http://mail.yahoo.com > > -- > To unsubscribe, send ANY message to: > pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... > > "In essential things, unity; in non-essential > things, liberty; and in all > things, charity." > > -- > To unsubscribe, send ANY message to: > pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... > > "In essential things, unity; in non-essential > things, liberty; and in all things, charity." > ===== john o'keefe http://www.ginkworld.net __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam http://mail.yahoo.com