Jerry, the church is the body of Christ. The rest is indeed your mere assertion. DW DW, > > It is not my "assertion" that carries the issue, it is the plain meaning > of the words in the text. > > The Holy Spirit does not baptize anyone in water or into a local church. > He does baptize those trusting Christ as Savior into the Body of Christ, > and there is ONLY ONE BODY OF CHRIST. > > Christ died for people,sinners, to make them His family, not a legal > institutionalized corporation recognized by the state. Nor did He die > for churcheS, ... He died for His Church, "it" not "them." > > Jerry > "The whole assembly became silent as they listened to Barnabas and Paul > telling about the miraculous signs and wonders God had done among the > Gentiles through them" (Acts 15:12). > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: David Warner > To: pastorsforum@... > Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 4:08 PM > Subject: RE: [PastorsForum] Dispensationalism comments please > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > From: Jerry Lewis [mailto:jlew0@...] > Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 2:22 PM > To: PastorsForum > Subject: Fw: [PastorsForum] Dispensationalism comments please > > > > DW, > > > > How many baptisms do you see in the New Testament? > > > > FYI, there are several, including believer's baptism of those who > express saving faith in Christ. > > > > Heb 6:1-2 > 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us > go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance > from dead works, and of faith toward God, > > 2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of > resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. > KJV > > > > The baptism referenced in 1Cor 12:13 CANNOT be a physical baptism > since it is performed by the Holy Spirit as the baptizing Agent. This > is a spiritual or mystical baptism. And the body referenced in this > verse cannot be the local church gathering. The Holy Spirit does not > baptize anyone into the local church. The pastor of the local church, > or someone duly authorized, is the baptizing agent for believer's > baptism. > > > > Jerry, assertion is not enough to establish Biblical proof. Just you > asserting that it cannot be the local church gathering or that the Holy > Spirit cannot be the agent is insufficient. You are trying to build a > doctrine on the traditions of men. > > > > > > 1 Cor 12:13 > > 13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be > Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to > drink into one Spirit. > KJV > > > > Furthermore, .... In your view, which local church did Christ die for? > > > > Jerry, Christ died for my local church, didn't He die for yours? All > those in Corinth had been all baptized by one Spirit into one body and > all made to drink into one Spirit. I claim the same thing about the > Fellowship Baptist Church in North Lewisburg, OH. I think every true > church would claim this. > > > > > > Was it "Our Lady of Perpetual Help" the Roman Catholic Church in our > county? Perhaps the Anglican Communion? Which local church is the > "glorious church without spot or blemish? Is the word "church" in > these verses in the plural????? Is there any verse that supports your > contention that there are multiple "bodies" of Christ? > > > > Uhhh, it would be the church of the Lord Jesus Christ. The one He > founded. The one He built. > > > > > > Eph 5:24-27 > > 24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be > to their own husbands in every thing. > > 25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and > gave himself for it; > > 26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by > the word, > > 27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having > spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and > without blemish. > KJV > > > > Jerry > > "The whole assembly became silent as they listened to Barnabas and Paul > telling about the miraculous signs and wonders God had done among the > Gentiles through them" (Acts 15:12). > > > > > > Jerry, you will need to distinguish what you are and what Scripture is > speaking of in regards to the church. Is it the local visible assembly > or the generic, or the church in prospect. When one speaks of > marriage, they need to let it be known if they are speaking of a > specific marriage in a local visible marriage between two who have > become one, or marriage generically, or marriage as a concept. > > > > DW > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: David Warner > > To: pastorsforum@... > > Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 4:23 PM > > Subject: RE: [PastorsForum] Dispensationalism comments please > > > > So, when do you think He established it? Jerry is saying the Holy > Spirit established it, I think. > > > > David W > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > From: JoynCharles [mailto:joyncharles@...] > Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 1:10 PM > To: pastorsforum@... > Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] Dispensationalism comments please > > > > David, > > let me try again. > > Eph 4:9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended > first into the lower parts of the earth? > 10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all > heavens, that he might fill all things.) > 11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, > evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; > 12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, > for the edifying of the body of Christ: > > If He gave offices in the Church, then He must have established it. > > Just thinking, > > > > Rev. Charles Cockroft > Associate Pastor > First Assembly of God, Denison, Texas > A Church Without Walls > > > > From: David Warner > > Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 11:50 AM > > To: pastorsforum@... > > Subject: RE: [PastorsForum] Dispensationalism comments please > > > > Jerry, the state cannot start a church or form a church of Jesus > Christ. > > Jesus started His church during His earthly ministry. > > The Holy Spirit empower the church but did not start it. > > The church was meeting and waiting in the upper room when the Holy > Spirit came. > > The church Jesus started and which continues till this day, is always > a local called out assembly which gather to worship, observe the > ordinances, and carry out the commission Jesus gave it. No > "mystical" body can do this. There is no such thing as a mystical > baptism, a mystical Lord's Supper, a mystical gathering, a mystical > going into all the world preaching the gospel and making disciples by > an invisible "something". > > Jesus started His church, not the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit > empowered and still empowers today. > > > > Jesus called out and gathered His church regularly during His earthly > ministry. > > > > DW > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > From: Jerry Lewis [mailto:jlew0@...] > Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 9:39 AM > To: pastorsforum@... > Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] Dispensationalism comments please > > > > DW, > > > > Jesus is the "Builder" of His Church. However, He builds His Church > through the operation of His Spirit. There is no "Body of Christ" in > the earth today except by the operation and ministry of the Holy > Spirit. Before the Holy Spirit came, there was just a group of > people. > > > > Now, do understand that when I use the term "church" I am speaking of > that mystical body of all believers in the family of God and not a > legal institution recognized by the state authorities. Any man can > gather a group of people to follow him and register with the > secretary of state with legal incorporation as a "church" but that > does not mean they are the Church of Christ. > > > > Jerry > > "The whole assembly became silent as they listened to Barnabas and > Paul telling about the miraculous signs and wonders God had done > among the Gentiles through them" (Acts 15:12). > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: David Warner > > To: pastorsforum@... > > Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 10:43 PM > > Subject: RE: [PastorsForum] Dispensationalism comments please > > > > That is a common view, Jerry. But no one has explained how they > claim Jesus started His church, like He said He would, when it was > actually the Holy Spirit that started or began the church according > to your belief expressed here. Perhaps you could explain the > starting of the church by the Holy Spirit rather than Jesus? > > > > DW > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > From: Jerry Lewis [mailto:jlew0@...] > Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 8:25 PM > To: pastorsforum@... > Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] Dispensationalism comments please > > > > DW, > > > > I believe the Church age began with the coming of the Holy Spirit > on the Day of Pentecost. The Church age will end with the second > coming of Christ. I see the "Church Age" as being the same as the > "Dispensation of Grace." > > > > Jerry > > "The whole assembly became silent as they listened to Barnabas and > Paul telling about the miraculous signs and wonders God had done > among the Gentiles through them" (Acts 15:12). > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: David Warner > > To: pastorsforum@... > > Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2008 10:16 PM > > Subject: RE: [PastorsForum] Dispensationalism comments please > > > > Jerry, are you saying you believe the church age didn't begin > until the church was empowered by the Holy Spirit on Pentecost? > > Do you distinguish between the church age and the church? > > > > PDW > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > From: Jerry [mailto:jlew@...] > Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2008 10:25 AM > To: pastorsforum@... > Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] Dispensationalism comments please > > > > Jeff Hallmark wrote: > > I am not a hyper-dispensationist, but a mild dispensationist. > > > So, what's the difference???? Is a hyper-dispensationist anything > like a hypo-Calvinist? :-) > > > > Where do you classify me? Or should I say "which box do you try > to fit me in?" I definitely believe that God works with men in > different ways under different covenants, like the dispensation > of the law and the Church age, or age of grace. The Church age > began on the Day of Pentecost and will continue until the Church > (all believers in Christ, not a institution of men) is caught up > with Christ. > > > > Jerry > > "And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will > pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your > daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, > and your old men shall dream dreams:Acts 2:17 KJV > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Steven G. Rockhill > > To: pastorsforum@... > > Sent: Friday, June 13, 2008 8:50 PM > > Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] Dispensationalism comments please > > > > > > Jeff Hallmark wrote: > > I am not a hyper-dispensationist, but a mild dispensationist. > > > > Jeff, You almost make it sound like a disease. Hahaha. I know > this is an offshoot of your original post, but how would you > differentiate between hyper and mild? Not arguing or anything, > just curious to learn. > > Peace, > Steve > > > > > > > > -- > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++Pastor > Steven G. RockhillLisbon Reformed Presbyterian ChurchPO Box 88Lisbon, NY > 13658315-393-9041revrock@... Church site: > http://lisbonrpc.orgAudio Sermons: > http://revrockhill.com+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > To subscribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-join@... 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