DW Again, you chose to call me non christian ...I call antinomianism non chirstian and that's what you said I believe in. Where's that come from? Bill Burns Old Town Soup Kitchen 600 Gratiot St. Saginaw, Michigan 48602 989.791.4549 or cell 989.220.6228 --- On Fri, 7/11/08, David Warner <dwarner@...> wrote: > From: David Warner <dwarner@...> > Subject: RE: [PastorsForum] Why should the devil have all the good music? > To: pastorsforum@... > Date: Friday, July 11, 2008, 7:31 PM > _____ > > From: Jerry [mailto:jlew@...] > Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 7:24 PM > To: pastorsforum@... > Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] Why should the devil have all > the good music? > > > > DW, > > > > "Apples and oranges!" > > > > There is a big difference between hyper-sensitivity to > someone disagreeing > with your position on the professionalism of formal dress > and the bashing > personal attacks and character assassination of the > articles and video clips > posted. > > > > Jerry, That is what you keep saying and what I keep asking > for you to show! > Where was the bashing personal attacks and character > assassination in the > "in their own words"??? Brother, there was NONE > there. None. You only > perceived and allusion. That's why we kept asking > where it was. You say > you saw it be we didn't and you couldn't tell us > where it was. > > > > > > > > However, you are certainly welcome to your thoughts .... > and you can express > your disagreement with any preacher or doctrinal position, > WOF, IFB, > Calvinism, Arminianism, paedobaptist, dispensationist, > cessationist or > non-cessationist, or whatever. THAT HAS BEEN CLEARLY > STATED, AND STATED, AND > STATED, Ad infinitum. > > > > But to try and kick sand in my face because I criticize or > express my > disagreement with another's position is a CROCK. > > > > Our dear departed brother had been repeatedly spoken to > about the posting of > articles, clips, and web sites bashing other preachers. He > was informed of > the operating parameters of PF and disregarded them. He was > intentional in > what he was doing. > > > > No Jerry. When you came up with this position, he left and > did not > intentionally repeat. You said no articles, so he gave > links and clips in > their own words-not something someone said about them. You > didn't like that > either. So, he left. > > > > > > Now, in consideration of your other issue, .... > > > > It is not my responsibility to defend every preacher who is > bashed and > attacked. > > > > I did, in several postings, address specific instances > where several > preachers were unfairly maligned and slandered on video > clips and in > McConnell's book and gave REAL answers. > > > > I am not willing to invest time digging or researching > further to endeavor > to convince you of what you are unwilling to accept. > > > > If that bothers you, I'm sorry. But that is the way it > is. > > > > Again, if you really want to know, there are plenty of > sources, including > two books already mentioned, that you can research > yourself. > > > > Jerry > > "And Jesus said unto the centurion, Go thy way; and as > thou hast believed, > so be it done unto thee. And his servant was healed in the > selfsame hour" > (Matt 8:13). > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: David Warner <mailto:dwarner@...> > > To: pastorsforum@... > > Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 2:45 PM > > Subject: RE: [PastorsForum] Why should the devil have all > the good music? > > > > Jerry, > > > > I think Kevin's remarks were well grounded and > continued to show his > intellect. It seems you really can't see your own > inconsistencies. I think > others see them but they are not readily apparent to you. > Jeff made no > personal attack but gave a link to a sound bit of the > person's own words. > You took exception to that and said he was bashing, > trashing, and lifted > them out of context. Yet, you provided no other context or > additional > context to show you were accurate in your assertion. I > think at least 4 > people have asked you for you and your only real answer is > you don't have > time and for others to go find it for themselves. Why > would anyone want to > go hunting for something that probably doesn't exist or > at least they doubt > really exists? > > > > I too think you are fairly intelligent and I can't > understand why you can't > see this. > > > > DW > > > > > _____ > > > From: Jerry Lewis [mailto:jlew0@...] > Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 12:07 PM > To: pastorsforum@... > Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] Why should the devil have all > the good music? > > > > Kevin, > > > > >>>>Your response is uncalled for. You > personally attacked me and the > seminary. According to your own rules you should be > removed from the group. > > > > At times I am rather impressed by your great intelligence, > .. And at other > times I wonder where it vanished to ... Are you still > trying to kick sand > in my face???? > > > > I merely expressed disagreement with your comments. You > call that a > personal attack and character assassination???? No, > brother, I said nothing > personal about you. There was no attempt to offend. Put > your feet back down > on the floor and let's have that calm, rational > conversation. > > > > You claim that you gave support for a statement you made > about how clothing > "communicates immanence without the > transcendence"? Where is it? What > Scripture passage speaks of clothing communicating > immanence without > transcendence? I look these words up in my concordance and > it says "no > matches found." Please show me Biblical support for a > pastor's "uniform." > Do you wear a "mitre" when you stand in the > pulpit? Have they taught you > that this is where a pastor obtains his authority? > > > > Jerry > > "And Jesus said unto the centurion, Go thy way; and as > thou hast believed, > so be it done unto thee. And his servant was healed in the > selfsame hour" > (Matt 8:13). > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Kevin Sigafoos <mailto:ksigafoos@...> > > To: pastorsforum@... > > Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 11:19 AM > > Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] Why should the devil have all > the good music? > > > > Jerry, > > > > Your response is uncalled for. You personally attacked me > and the seminary. > According to your own rules you should be removed from the > group. > > > > I am trying to have an calm, rational conversation. I > expressed my opinion > and gave support for it. And you respond with character > assassignation and > scron?!? > > > > If this is the way you want to run this group than I'll > be leaving soon. > > > > I expect a public apology. > > On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 10:59 AM, Jerry Lewis > <jlew0@...> wrote: > > >>>>Even in our casual culture, a suit and tie > conveys the idea that a > person is serious about his profession. > > > > No. I do not accept that as being true or correct at all. > > > > > Many used car salesmen wear suits and ties. So do a lot of > cons and > hucksters. Most criminals wear a suit and tie when they > appear in court, ... > all they are doing is trying to impress someone to get an > advantage. > > > > >>>>The "uniform" of a pastor should > communicate that God is both > transcendant and immanent -- He is both "out there, > beyond our grasp" and > "here with us." > > > > Uniform of a pastor?????? Hahahahahahahahahahaha .... The > only thing a > suit and tie communicates is that the preacher has money to > buy clothes. > > > > >>>>The problem I see with the pastor dressing > like he was going to a > pic-nic is that it communicates immanence without the > transcendence; it > fails to give God the honor He deserves and it communicates > that the pastor > does not think it a very big deal to be speaking for God in > His house. > > > > Is this what they teach you at seminary????? " > immanence without the > transcendence;" based on what clothing the preacher > wears???? What a waste > of tuition money. > > > > Jerry > > "And Jesus said unto the centurion, Go thy way; and as > thou hast believed, > so be it done unto thee. And his servant was healed in the > selfsame hour" > (Matt 8:13). > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Kevin <mailto:ksigafoos@...> Sigafoos > > To: pastorsforum@... > > Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 9:42 AM > > Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] Why should the devil have all > the good music? > > > > > > On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 1:38 PM, Jerry Lewis > <jlew0@...> wrote: > > >>>>I think there is something to be said for a > certain "uniform" for the > preacher. > > > > You mean, ... like a collar or a robe or stole? Maybe we > should each wear a > tall oblong hat like the Pope .... I forgot the name for it > but it sure does > look "cool." > > > > A robe or collar would be OK, I guess. The robe comes from > the Middle Ages > when pastors were "Doctors of Theology" and that > was the uniform for the > professors. But what I really had in mind was a suit and > tie. Even in our > casual culture, a suit and tie conveys the idea that a > person is serious > about his profession. > > > > The papacy uniform is out since the origin of that is the > idea that the pope > was an earthly ruler. The "uniform" of a pastor > should communicate that God > is both transcendant and immanent -- He is both "out > there, beyond our > grasp" and "here with us." The problem I > see with the pastor dressing like > he was going to a pic-nic is that it communicates immanence > without the > transcendence; it fails to give God the honor He deserves > and it > communicates that the pastor does not think it a very big > deal to be > speaking for God in His house. > > > > > -- > > Grace and peace, > Kevin Sigafoos > --------------------- > For from him and through him and to him are all things. To > him be glory > forever. Amen. (Rom 11:36) > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > pastorsforum-join@... > > > > > > To unsubscribe, send a message to: > pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > <http://www.avg.com/> > Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.7/1542 - Release > Date: 7/9/2008 > 6:50 AM > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > pastorsforum-join@... > > To unsubscribe, send a message to: > pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... > > > > > > > > -- > > Grace and peace, > Kevin Sigafoos > --------------------- > For from him and through him and to him are all things. To > him be glory > forever. Amen. (Rom 11:36) > > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > pastorsforum-join@... > > > > To unsubscribe, send a message to: > pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.7/1542 - Release > Date: 7/9/2008 > 6:50 AM > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > pastorsforum-join@... > > To unsubscribe, send a message to: > pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... > > > > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > pastorsforum-join@... > > To unsubs > cribe, send a message to: > pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... > > > > > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > pastorsforum-join@... > > To unsubscribe, send a message to: > pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... > > > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > pastorsforum-join@... > > To unsubscribe, send a message to: > pastorsforum-unsubscribe@...