Greetings from the TRUE NORTH STRONG AND FREE.... For you men writing to Craig and asking about the facts or data. Look in your local phone book under churches, IS EVERY CHURCH IN YOUR TOWN STANDING FOR GOD? IS EVERY CHURCH IN YOUR TOWN WINNING SOULS FOR GOD? IS EVERY CHURCH IN YOUR TOWN BEING ALL IT CAN BE FOR GOD? IS EVERY CHURCH IN YOUR TOWN ETC....ETC... FOR GOD? modernism, gay right, abortion, family, etc... If so, why are you there, go to a missionfield and start from nothing and see what God will do!!!! Jeff > > > Craig, > > You said, > Most ministers are popularity based, not Bible based. > That is a fact. > > No .... Somehow, I don't think you have interviewed all ministers and have examined all > of the evidence in order to make an outlandish statement such as this. > > If you have, then please footnote your data so it can be checked and verified by all of the > ministers on this list. > > If you do not have such evidence, then, perhaps, it would be wise for you to cease > spouting off such nonsense. > > Your belief does not equate to facts. It would perhaps be more accurate to state that > you believe such and such . > > There is a difference between verifiable facts and supposition made on assumptions. > > Jerry L. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Craig Ledbetter > To: pastorsforum@... > Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2004 3:35 PM > Subject: RE: [PastorsForum] Re-Baptizing > > Ill say my point once again, > Most ministers are popularity based, not Bible based. > That is a fact. > I do not know who is on this list, but when I speak, I speak in reference to the whole lot every > modern minister that is not catholic. > You keep defending the whole lot. > The track that so many preachers go down is, they start off preaching the whole counsel of God > (at least they aspire to), and then because of offences that come from preaching it, they narrow > their focus to only the Gospel, and like you have said, they just keep the main thing the main > thing. From there they move on to social issues, and politics, and from there to Unitarianism. > That is the general trend. > No one imagines that I am thinking any of us ministers are perfect, but I emphasise that our > obligation as pastors is to much more than just the preaching of the Gospel, and the five > fundamentals that even the catholic church subscribes to. It is to declaring the whole counsel of > God fearlessly. AND earnestly contending for the whole deposit of faith contained in the Bible! > > Pastor Craig Ledbetter > > > > From: DAVID POWELL [mailto:dpowellaz@...] > Sent: 01 August 2004 15:05 > To: pastorsforum@... > Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] Re-Baptizing > > > Craig, I really think you are reading from the wrong sources. It is not right > that you lump so many in one bunch. Actually it is sad and it is not a very > healthy point of view spiritually. We all are lacking and that includes you > my brother so I guess you are among the "most" group after all. You use > scriptures wrongly some times. The narrow and broad gates are a > reference to the lost and the saved not to the "Traditional or non- > traditional" pastors. We all need to do better but you need to stop pointing > your finger at everyone else. Remember, my brother, when you point your > finger at me, there are three fingers point back at yourself. Your > generalizations are without merit. Are we all perfectly in God's will? NO! > None of us here in the US are nor there in Ireland are without faults and > shortcomings. > > > > Be Blessed > > Dr. Dave Powell, Senior Pastor, CLCC > Waddell, AZ > Shalom Alechem...Barukh Hashem Y'shua! > (Peace and Blessings in Jesus' name!) > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Craig Ledbetter > > To: pastorsforum@... > > Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2004 12:42 AM > > Subject: RE: [PastorsForum] Re-Baptizing > > > > No I havent met and personally analyzed them, > But I do read about them and their churches, and the emphasis that they have moved to > if they have any message they preach besides social injustice anymore. > When I say most I truly believe it. Even among ministers, it is so true that WIDE IS THE > GATE that they are living in. You see to think that most ministers are just right and that > they are a few bad eggs. > Out of the hundred thousand evangelical and protestant ministers in the US, the truth > stands that most of them are apostate or are going apostate. > If you believe otherwise, you are free to do so. But numerically, the Bible believer is a rare- > breed. > Open your eyes. > Quite defending shadows. > > Pastor Craig Ledbetter > > > > From: DAVID POWELL [mailto:dpowellaz@...] > Sent: 01 August 2004 01:54 > To: pastorsforum@... > Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] Re-Baptizing > > > Craig, without getting back into an argument with you, you need to stop > making statements about most pastors this and most preachers that. You > are not qualified to make those statements and frankly to do so is a little > dishonest. If you want to say that you feel there are many who do this or > that go for it, but you do not know how many do anything so I would ask > that you tone down your own generalizations! You have never yet met > most pastors and preachers! > > God Bless > > > > Dr. Dave Powell, Senior Pastor, CLCC > Waddell, AZ > Shalom Alechem...Barukh Hashem Y'shua! > (Peace and Blessings in Jesus' name!) > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Craig Ledbetter > > To: pastorsforum@... > > Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2004 5:05 PM > > Subject: RE: [PastorsForum] Re-Baptizing > > > > So easy to throw around clichés and use the term Phariseeism, etc. Just an easy way out. > Those of us who know what Phariseeism is, and who actually is causing division in the > work of God, are happy to take some hard-lines. That is what it used to mean to be a > preacher of the word of God. > Now most ministers are only preachers of the gospel, and leave the rest of the Bible up for > popular vote. > > Just remember that when you get into debates with atheists and pagans, they will retort > with the very same words you use against anyone YOU dont agree with. > > Pastor Craig Ledbetter > > > > > From: J [mailto:jelewis@...] > Sent: 31 July 2004 23:56 > To: pastorsforum@... > Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] Re-Baptizing > > > Bro Papa, > > > > I think I follow your thinking .... > > > > It is strange, though, when the redeemed of the Lord become so legalistic > and hard-line toward those not just like themselves. It has been repeated > multiple times throughout history. The pendulum keeps swinging. > > > > Jerry > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: rpapa@... > > To: pastorsforum@... > > Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2004 6:00 PM > > Subject: RE: [PastorsForum] Re-Baptizing > > > > Bro Jerry, > > You said, in portion, the following. It is so easy to fall into the snare of > "Pharaseeism."I makes no difference what name tag we wear, Independent > Fundamentalist Baptist, Southern Baptist, AGO, Presbyterian, etc ... I have > met people with a Pharisee spirit in them all .... > > I believe there are two types of Christians. The Jew Christian who is a > Pharisee (sets up and administers laws from the Bible) and there is the > Gentile Dog Christian, (who comes out of the closet and realizes, > confesses and publicly admits his besetting sin) The latter is free and sees > others as himself and not as the Pharisee sees him. > > I think you will find more compassion, understanding, and freedom to > serve God as a gentile dog saved by the grace of God then as a Pharisee > Christian. > > This is my personal option > Bro Papa > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: J [mailto:jelewis@...] > Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2004 4:33 PM > To: pastorsforum@... > Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] Re-Baptizing > > Steve, > > I agree 100% ... but yet, my point is that if we "say" it like the passages in > Acts read, we CANNOT be doing it the "wrong" way. I believe that when > we baptize in the "name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit" we ARE > baptizing in the Name of Jesus. > > In the church of today, we claim"orthodoxy," and we pride ourselves on > being "Biblical" but often miss the spirit ofwhat the Bible really says. > > It is so easy to fall into the snare of "Pharaseeism."I makes no difference > what name tag we wear, Independent Fundamentalist Baptist, Southern > Baptist, AGO, Presbyterian, etc .... I have met people with a Pharisee spirit > in them all ... > > Jerry L. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Steven G. Rockhill > > To: pastorsforum@... > Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2004 4:35 PM > Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] Re-Baptizing > > Jerry, > I think that Peter, Paul and the other Apostles would have followed Jesus' > command in Matthew 28:19 "baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the > Son and of the Holy Spirit" - one name - three persons. Since the Apostles would > not disregard Jesus' command we have to interpret the passages in Acts in that light > and not the other way around. I believe the references in Acts were just shortened > forms (synecdoche - where the part actually represents the whole) of the Trinitarian > formula - The Trinitarian formula is what Christ commanded and it was the > Apostles would have used and it is what the Church has done for centuries. > > Peace, > Steve > > J wrote: > > > > Jeff, > > > > You said, -- Baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. In deep > water, just like Jesus. Who walked 100 K to be baptized in deep water > by John the Baptist. > The right mode > > > > The ONLY mode (or formula) given in the Book of Acts is not Trinitarian, it > is "in the name of the Lord Jesus" (or similar). > > > > If a candidate for church membership was immersed "in the Name of Jesus" and > not "in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit" . Would he be > admitted into the membership of your church???? Would you (or your church) > reject a candidate who has been Scripturally baptized according to these > Scriptures???? > > > > Acts 2:38 > 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in > the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the > gift of the Holy Ghost. > KJV > > > > Acts 8:16-17 > 16(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in > the name of the Lord Jesus.) 17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they > received the Holy Ghost. > KJV > > > > Acts 10:48 > 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed > they him to tarry certain days > KJV > > > > Acts 19:5 > 5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. > KJV > > > > You also said, -- Baptized by a local New Testament Baptist Church > The right Authority. > > > > What about those baptized by an independent church that believes and > practices the same doctrine as a Baptist church but is not officially > Baptist? > > > > So you believe that only "baptized Baptists" will get into Heaven??? > > If God accepts them as members of His family and Body, then why do you and > your church reject them as members of your local fellowship of believers > (church)??? > > > > Is this religious (Baptist) tradition or New Testament Doctrine > (teaching)??? > > > > Jerry L. > > > > > > > > -- > To unsubscribe, send ANY message to: pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... > > "In essential things, unity; in non-essential things, liberty; and in all things, charity." > > > -- > To unsubscribe, send ANY message to: pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... > > "In essential things, unity; in non-essential things, liberty; and in all things, charity." > > > > -- > To unsubscribe, send ANY message to: pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... > > "In essential things, unity; in non-essential things, liberty; and in all things, charity." > > > -- > To unsubscribe, send ANY message to: pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... > > "In essential things, unity; in non-essential things, liberty; and in all things, charity." > > > > > -- > To unsubscribe, send ANY message to: pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... > > "In essential things, unity; in non-essential things, liberty; and in all things, charity." > > > -- > To unsubscribe, send ANY message to: pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... > > "In essential things, unity; in non-essential things, liberty; and in all things, charity." > > > > > -- > To unsubscribe, send ANY message to: pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... > > "In essential things, unity; in non-essential things, liberty; and in all things, charity." > > > > -- > To unsubscribe, send ANY message to: pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... > > "In essential things, unity; in non-essential things, liberty; and in all things, charity." > > > > > -- > To unsubscribe, send ANY message to: pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... > > "In essential things, unity; in non-essential things, liberty; and in all things, charity." > > > Pastor Jeff Hallmark SPRUCELAND BAPTIST CHURCH ~~~Presenting the Prince of Peace to Prince George~~~