How about that, Steven G. Rockhill, M.Div., Lisbon Reformed Presbyterian Church, Lisbon, NY > Not sure how I got dragged into this fray, but I would agree that God's Called out ones (church) > in the OT was the nation of Israel (true Israel that is) or Israel was the OT Church. Both Israel > and the Church have been called out by God - a special people chosen by God that He might > redeem them through Christ. Was Jesus not an OT Jew? God always has a people - a faithful > remnant whether it was in Israel in the OT or even in the realm of Christendom today. I also > believe that with Christ's sacrifice on the Cross the Jewish religion has been made obsolete - this > was confirmed by God's destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple in 70 AD. Also the rejection of > Christ by the Jews means also that they as a nation are no longer significant in God's plan for > the future as the Church is the New Israel of God - held together by a new and better covenant. > Of course, if God so desires He may have a plan at some point to graft the Jews back in (Rom. > 11) but not as a nation, but individuals (perhaps even large masses) who will come to know > Christ. Here is an interesting position paper on this and if you scroll down far enough you may > see a familiar name as signator. > http://www.knoxseminary.org/Prospective/Faculty/WittenbergDoor/index.html > > > Peace, > Steve > > > > Pastor David Warner wrote: > Finally someone who has revealed why those who want women as elders, deacons, etc. > in the church go astray. They equate Israel with the church. Sorry Steve, I suspect you > do to even though you don't make this same error. It is amazing to me that those who > want to find the biblical order for the church appeal to the OT.\ > Just relaxing on a Monday morning, > David W > -----Original Message----- > From: Dave Gilder [mailto:davemetro@...] > Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 12:06 AM > To: pastorsforum@... > Subject: [PastorsForum] women in leadership > > Well brothers at last I have an email account in America and an apartment too. Please > note my new email address davemetro@... and if you want to reply to me use > that one. > Well here goes Daniel in the lions den again, guess who had a female elder in his church. J (My > Wife to boot) Brothers I spent 18yrs in the Christian Brethren teaching that women should be > silent in the church, what a load of old rubbish. How can our sons and daughtersprophecy by > ventriloquism!!! If we think that then guess whos the dummy and it isnt our daughters/women. > Gentlemen the days of men only church leadership clubs is long gone and praise God for that. > Often times when we read men in the word of God it is not gender orientated but refers rather to > mankind (male and female) Deborah was a judge in Israel (that means she was a leader) Israel > is an old testament picture of the church. So in that sense wasnt she a leader in the church!!!! > If women are so incapable of leadership that we dare not trust them to lead then what is God > doing blessing the likes of Joyce Myer clearly a leader and a gifted preacher/teacher of the word > of God. Dare I say it probably leading bigger churches than most of us. Just my thought dont > savage me too much remember what happened to the lions with Daniel. By the way David in > answer to your quick question what do you do in a church if the men of the church will not take > the lead? THANK GOD FOR THE WOMEN J > Dave > > > > > > > -- > To unsubscribe, send ANY message to: pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... > > "In essential things, unity; in non-essential things, liberty; and in all things, charity." > > > Pastor Jeff Hallmark SPRUCELAND BAPTIST CHURCH ~~~Presenting the Prince of Peace to Prince George~~~