Jeff, To add a little fuel to the debate, I do not believe in the Rapture :0 ------------------------------------ Wallers Baptist Church Pastor derick@... PO Box 95 Partlow VA 22534 tel: 540-582-5703 mobile: 540-894-1772 www.thedickensfamily.org ------------------------------------ > -----Original Message----- > From: Jeff & Regena in Northern BC [mailto:J.R.Hallmark@...] > Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2004 7:06 PM > To: pastorsforum@... > Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] John Kerry on Pastors forum > > > > Bro. Jerry, > > I would agree with you, if you could take out "Universal Church" and > replace it with the "Family of God". > > If you can't do that, then I guess we will disagree till we > get to heaven. > > I have yet to see one verse refering to the Universal Church. > > I will be answering the posts from Bro. Derick and Bro. Steve on > Sunday afternoon. LORD willing the rapture of the Saint doesn't > happen first. > > BTW, is it the rapture of the church or the saints. > > Jeff > > > > Jeffrey, > > > > (Please note, the red highlights are for additional emphasis) > > > > You said Someone give me one verse in context which tells > us there is > > a universal > > church. > > > > Please go back and read Derick's most recent posts about the church > > and discipline. > > Note in particular his references and comments to Matt 16 > and Ephesians 5. > > > > You are referring to me, because I DO believe that the > Bible teaches > > that there is a > > "Universal Church, that Jesus died for, that Jesus is > building, that is made up of the > > "called out ones," who are all the redeemed of the Lord. > All truly "born-again, blood- > > washed saints of God" are part of this universal church no > matter what denominational > > name tag or label they wear. We will be in heaven together, > though now, we are separated > > by time and geography. > > > > They (all the redeemed of the Lord who are the "called out > ones, the > > Church Universal) will > > assemble together at the last Trumpet when the dead in > Christ shall rise and we who are > > alive and remain shall meet them in the air. Then we shall > be "gathered together" or > > "assembled" in the presence of God. > > > > This "Universal Church" of all redeemed believers in Christ > does not > > practice church > > discipline or the ordinances of the local church. It is to > the local church (the gathering of > > believers in a local geographical area) that these tasks > and responsibilities are given. > > > > Christ is the "Chief Shepherd" or "Pastor" of this > "Universal Church." > > We are > > "undershepherds" who pastor the local church. > > > > Both the "Universal Church" and the "local church" are in > existence at > > the same time. > > There is overlap (somewhat) in the membership of the > Universal Church and the local > > church. Baptists hold to a distinctive belief that the > membership of the local church be > > restricted to regenerated, saved people. Sometimes people > are admitted to the > > membership of Baptist churches who are not saved and born- > again. (For proof of this > > statement please observe a few church business meetings. My > brother was a "counterfeit > > conversion" who shook the preacher's hand, was baptized and > joined the local church > > (Baptist), but was "lost as a coot." Later he did get > saved. for real.) Many denominational > > churches permit unrestricted membership, yet some on their > membership roles are really > > saved people. Note, unsaved, unregenerated people are NOT > part of the "Universal > > Church." Note, denominations, parachurch organizations, and > organizations of men such > > as The Presbyterian Church (USA), The United Methodist > Church, The Assemblies of God, > > The Cooperative Baptist Fellowship, American Baptist, The > Evangelical Lutheran Church > > in America, The Southern Baptist Convention, The > Fundamental Baptist Fellowship, and > > the Baptist Bible Fellowship International, ARE NOT part of > the "Universal Church." ONLY > > SAVED, REGENERATED PEOPLE make up the "Universal Church," > NOT organizations and > > institutions. > > > > As a born -again believer in Christ Jesus, I am part of > "The Church of > > the Lord Jesus > > Christ." As a regenerated believer, I am a member of > Southside Baptist Church, a > > fellowship of believers of like mind and faith, who join > themselves in covenant to serve > > Christ together in our local community. > > > > Jerry L > > Southside Baptist Church > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Jeff & Regena in Northern BC > > To: pastorsforum@... > > Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2004 12:27 AM > > Subject: [PastorsForum] John Kerry on Pastors forum > > > > > > SOOOOOOO which is it???? > > > > > > > > Now, ... the "Universal, invisible, Church" doesn't practice church > > discipline. > > > > > > That responsibilityand role is assigned to the visible, > local church. > > > > > > Is it local church or universal church? > > > > > > BTW, Jerry I am not just refering to you, there are a number of men > > saying there is a local > > church there is a universal church. > > > > But what sayth the scripture. > > > > Someone give me one verse in context which tells us there is a > > universal church. > > > > > > "Bro. Jeff Hallmark" > > > > "Presenting the Prince of Peace to Prince George" > > > > > > -- > > To unsubscribe, send ANY message to: > > pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... > > > > "In essential things, unity; in non-essential things, > liberty; and in > > all things, charity." > > > > > > > > > > -- > > To unsubscribe, send ANY message to: > > pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... > > > > "In essential things, unity; in non-essential things, > liberty; and in > > all things, charity." > > > > > > > > Pastor Jeff Hallmark SPRUCELAND BAPTIST CHURCH > ~~~Presenting the Prince of Peace to Prince George~~~ > > -- > To unsubscribe, send ANY message to: > pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... > > "In essential things, unity; in non-essential things, > liberty; and in all things, charity." > >