Steve, Derick, I have a couple questions. What about those who never heard
or will never hear. Are not any of them in the "Elect"? What about the
infants of those who never heard or hear? I know we have been there before,
but I want to know how that fits into your theology.
Mike Cantrell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steven G. Rockhill" <revrock@...>
To: <pastorsforum@...>
Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 8:36 PM
Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] Before the foundation of the World
>
>
> Jeff Hallmark wrote:
>
> > See below
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Steven G. Rockhill" <revrock@...>
> >
> >
> >>Charlie,
> >> If you were not elect you would never get to the point where you
> >>would want to give your life to Christ. Only those chosen in Him
> >>before the foundation of the world will come and respond to both
> >>the inward and outward call of God. Again Rom. 3 - there are none
> >>who seek after God, no not one!!! And John 6 all that the Father
> >>gives Him will come. But there are many who respond to the outward
> >>call of the Gospel but are not true believers (like the seed among
> >>the rocks and thorns in the parable of the sower - eventually their
> >>fruits or lack thereof will bear this out).
> >
> >
> > Bro. Steve, are you saying everyone who has come to the point of giving
their life to
> > Christ is chosen, ie.. elect.
>
> (STeve) - No, I am saying that only those whom Christ died for are the
> elect. The elected will be gathered to Christ by hearing/or reading the
> Gospel message. They will receive the Call of the Gospel both outwardly
> with their physical hearing apparatus - or other method for the deaf and
> inwardly by the work of the Holy Spirit reviving their hearts. And they
> will respond through the gift of Faith given to them by the Grace of God
> (not of works). They will publicly profess Christ with their mouth and
> bear the fruit of good works that Christ has appointed for them.
> Many 'come to the point' but only of the outward Call and they will
> be like the seed sown among the rocks or thorns. But they will not be
> inwardly called unless they are of the elect. Many profess but not all
> are true.
>
>
> >
> > Could it be that some (dare I say) that some preacher even on the
pastorforum is not
> > of the elect.
>
> (Steve) - yes it is a possibility but I trust and hope it is not a
> reality. Only God is the discerner of hearts.
> Here is why I believe it is possible: Matthew 7:20-23 20
> "Therefore by their fruits you will know them. 21 " Not everyone who
> says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who
> does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 "Many will say to Me in that
> day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons
> in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' 23 "And then I will
> declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice
> lawlessness!'
> These whom Jesus speaks of were 'ministering' in His name - but He
> does not know them.
>
>
> >
> > I mean, I am not of reform, calvanist or coverent thology, and since
according to some
> > it is the true gospel. Are you saying that I am not of the elect.
>
> (Steve)
> Jeff, I believe that reformed/calvinist/covenantal theology is true
> Biblical theology. But I am just a man, I am not perfect, I do not have
> all the answers, and there are still many things that I am not certain
> on but at this time what I believe, I believe is the truth - unless I
> can be shown clearly from the Scriptures alone which is the only
> authority in matters of faith and doctrine - my conscience bearing
> witness I cannot, I will not recant. Here I stand. :-)
>
> As to your personal faith and relationship with the Lord - Jeff, I do
> not and cannot know your heart - only you and the Lord know any
> certainty about the sincerity of your faith and whether you are chosen
> in Him before the foundation of the World. From our limited interaction
> via email I count you as a true brother in the Lord. Yes, I strongly
> disagree with you on these issues we have been discussing and believe
> your interpretation is not the right one, but I am most unwilling to say
> that because of this you are not of the elect and thus not a brother in
> Christ. We are saved by grace through faith alone, not by knowledge or
> works.
> Here is where the Hyper-Calvinists would come in and say not only
> that you are lost because of your erroneous doctrine but that I am lost
> as well because I accept you as a brother. These folks are much akin to
> the early heretical gnostic groups. They base salvation on knowledge of
> certain doctrines. This is still heresey today as it was in the early
> Church era.
>
>
>
> >
> > When I was saved, the soul winner show me Romans 10:13 For Whosoever
shall call upon the
> > name of the Lord shall be saved.
> >
> > My faith was not in a prayer, but in the blood of Jesus Christ and the
fact that I was a whosoever.
> > For which Jesus died. I trust Jesus Christ to be my personal saviour.
> >
> > Amen, saved and rejoicing in God's grace and mercy.
> >
> > Jeff
> >
>
> I think the story has been told from both sides about Whitfield
> (Calvinist) and Wesley (arminian) and somebody asks one if they will see
> the other in Heaven and the response is "No, for I will be so far back
> and he will be so far closer to the Lord that I will not see him".
>
> Praise God for His indescribable Gift!!!
>
>
>
> Peace and Grace,
> Steve
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >
> >
> >>Peace and Grace,
> >>Steve
> >>
> >>Charlie Carroll Jr. wrote:
> >>
> >>>Derick,
> >>>I probably should not even get in this discusion because I have
> >>>not been keeping up with it. But are you saying that if I wanted
> >>>to give my life to Christ and lived my life as such. But God did
> >>>not choose me, I am doomed to hell? here because of Jesus
> >>>Charlie
> >>>Phil.4:13
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: Derick Dickens <mailto:Derick@...>
> >>> To: pastorsforum@... <mailto:pastorsforum@...>
> >>> Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 2:54 PM
> >>> Subject: [PastorsForum] Before the foundation of the World
> >>>
> >>> Mike,
> >>>
> >>> We have mentioned the "whosoever" a numerous number of times.
> >>> "Whosoever" is nowhere in any greek manuscript. The word
> >>>some use
> >>> is "pas" but that is not even close to how it was translated.
"Pas"
> >>> does not mean "Whosoever". David Powell did a great job in showing
> >>> that the idea of whosoever was a late idea not one that comes from
> >>> the text. Just some thoughts. Derick
> >>>Dickens <http://www.thedickensfamily.org/>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Pastor Wallers Baptist Church
> >>> PO Box 95
> >>> Partlow VA 22534
> >>>
>
>>><http://maps.yahoo.com/py/maps.py?Pyt=Tmap&addr=PO+Box+95&csz=Partlow+VA+
22534&country=us>
> >>>
> >>> derick@... <mailto:derick@...>
> >>> www.thedickensfamily.org <http://www.thedickensfamily.org/>
> >>> tel:
> >>> mobile: 540-582-5703
> >>> 540-894-1772
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Signature powered by Plaxo <http://www.plaxo.com/signature> Want a
> >>> signature like this? <http://www.plaxo.com/signature>
> >>>
> >>> Add me to your address book...
> >>> <https://www.plaxo.com/add_me?u=21475105341&v0=517300&k0=393677647>
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: Mike Tittle [mailto:drmike1@...]
> >>> Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 2:35 PM
> >>> To: pastorsforum@...
> >>> Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] THe "H" Word
> >>>
> >>> Derick,
> >>>
> >>> I do not think God is a respector of persons. The statement I
> >>> made was a result of what I have read from these posts.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I see it this way:
> >>>
> >>> John 3:16
> >>> For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten
> >>> Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but
have
> >>> everlasting life.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> This does not say that God chooses some to be saved and others
> >>> lost, it says that "whosoever believes" shall have everlasting
> >>> life.
> >>>
> >>> Before the foundation of the earth, God knew man would sin, so
> >>> He provided a saviour for those sinners. I think all will have
> >>> an opportunity to be saved, but not all will accept the
> >>> opportunity. You know, there is one
> >>>thing we agree on. There are cultural
> >>> differences between us. I am happy to be
> >>>a hillbilly, and I am happy to be a Tennessee
> >>> Volunteer, but I am most happy that I know Jesus
> >>>
> >>> Mike
> >>>
> >>>
>
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>
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