Steve,

I do not know if this is the complete answer, but I believe that there is 
great truth in your comments.

Paul does seem to use the word "flesh" with different meanings at times.
Among other things, it may refer to the physical body or sometimes it means 
the "old man."

We cannot "kill" the flesh, the physical body, but we must not obey the 
desires of it.  Then we are to put off the old man and put on the new man 
(Eph 4:22-24; Col 3:9-10), and Rom 6:6 puts it in the past tense .... that 
we have killed or "crucified" the old man, .... and this leads to victory in 
the Christian's struggle with sin.

Romans 6: 6   Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the 
body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Jerry L





----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steven G. Rockhill" <revrock@...>
To: <pastorsforum@...>
Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2005 10:55 PM
Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] can a man live above sin?


>I would say that the 'flesh' of which Paul speaks here is the remnant of 
>the sin nature that remains in us - in our flesh.  If we are In Christ, it 
>no longer has dominion over us (it has been put to death and the new nature 
>reigns - yea even Christ reigns in us) but as long as we are in the flesh 
>there remains a remnant.  That is why our resurrected bodies will be 
>gloriously changed - because that remnant will no longer be there at all 
>and we shall be like Him.
>
> peace,
> Steve
>
> Pastor David Warner wrote:
>
>> I'm not sure I buy this "dual nature" idea.  Sound schizophrenic to me. 
>> Isn't the "old man" dead?  Crucified with Christ?   "put off"?  Does 
>> Christ live in (indwell or abide) a dual natured body?  Certainly bears 
>> more study on my part.
>> David W
>>
>>     -----Original Message-----
>>     From: Mike Cantrell [mailto:mcantrell@...]
>>     Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2005 10:20 PM
>>     To: pastorsforum@...
>>     Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] can a man live above sin?
>>
>>     Bro Jerry, I believe he is speaking of the fleshman and the
>>     spiritual man, the dual nature of the believer.  The fleshman is the
>>     wretched man, the spiritual man is the one whom Christ has set free. 
>> Paul says who shall deliver me from this body of death, speaking of
>>     the fleshly body, well, one day the One who delivered the spiritual
>>     man will deliver the flesh from corruption. I Cor. 15
>>      Mike Cantrell
>>      ----- Original Message -----
>>         From: Jerry <mailto:jelewis@...>
>>         To: pastorsforum@... 
>> <mailto:pastorsforum@...>
>>         Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2005 9:08 PM
>>         Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] can a man live above sin?
>>
>>          Mike,
>>          The Scriptures you quoted from Romans 7 plus this one:
>>          Rom 7:14  For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am
>>         carnal, sold under sin.
>>
>>         .... they all say that Paul is carnal, sold under sin, wretched,
>>         bound and held in captivity be sin.
>>          The following , from Romans 6 say that he is free from sin, and
>>         that sin has no power or dominion over him.
>>          Rom 6:2
>>         2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any
>>         longer therein?
>>         KJV
>>          Rom 6:4
>>         4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that
>>         like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the
>>         Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
>>         KJV
>>          Rom 6:6
>>         6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the
>>         body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not
>>         serve sin.
>>         KJV
>>
>>         Rom 6:7
>>         7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
>>         KJV
>>          Rom 6:9-13
>>         9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more;
>>         death hath no more dominion over him.
>>         10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he
>>         liveth, he liveth unto God.
>>         11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto
>>         sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
>>         12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye
>>         should obey it in the lusts thereof.
>>         13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of
>>         unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as
>>         those that are alive from the dead, and your members as
>>         instruments of righteousness unto God.
>>         KJV
>>          Rom 6:14
>>         14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not
>>         under the law, but under grace.
>>         KJV
>>          Rom 6:18
>>         18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of
>>         righteousness.
>>         KJV
>>          Rom 6:22
>>         22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God,
>>         ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
>>         KJV
>>         So, .....  Which passage is right????  Is the Christian "bound by 
>> sin" or is he "free from sin" ????
>>          How do you reconcile these two passages?
>>          I personally believe that Paul was speaking the past tense in
>>         Romans 7 as he explains how he realized how sinful he really was
>>         and that he needed a Savior.
>>          Jerry L
>>
>
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